ArcFlash Breakers

[MarcArsenault]

Hi...

 

So I tried to install a 2473SWH receptacle in our master bedroom, and I tried and tried (and fussed and farted and swapped) and finally realized these receptacle(s) go thru an arc-flash type breaker (Cutler Hammer model something or other) and this was probably the reason it was not able to communicate (this receptacle worked elswhere). After reading a bit on forum I see at least 1 solution would be to purchase another wireless access point and plug it in to that circuit.

 

As an altenative does anyone know of any other models of Arcflash breakers that may be a little more compatible with Insteon communications ? A new breaker (or 2) may be a less expensive alternative to what I think is my problem.

 

Cheers

 

M

[ELA]

Hello MarcArsenault,

From your post it seemed as though you might be going on an assumption that the AFCI is your problem?

While it is possible I have never read ay conclusive proof that AFCI breakers attenuate Insteon signals.

 

Can you tell us more about the communications routes involved?

Where is the transmitter that is trying to communicate with the outletlinc in relation to the outletlinc?

How much distance between the two, on different phases (legs), different or same circuit?

 

Is it possible that you have so much distance between the two that the signal is weak regardless of AFCI or not? Are there any other Insteon devices (repeaters) in-between the transmitter and the intended receiver?

Any signal suckers on either circuit that may require a filterlinc?

 

Without knowing how comfortable you are with electrical, a temporary replacement of the AFCI with a standard breaker could be telling. (only as a test, be sure to re-install the AFCI afterwards).

 

Often times it is a total guessing game without signal strength measurements.

[Brian H]

I also have not seen any posts on Arc Fault Breakers being a signal problem.

I have seen reports of some brands false tripping on Insteon power line signals as documented in the Smarthome Wiki.

[MarcArsenault]

Yes I am kind of making that assumption simply because I know it is not the receptacle as it functions elsewhere, I have a 2460 Dimmer and a 2466S Toggle operating in the same room which is also on the same phase "B"...works like a charm. I've also tried lamp dimmer module in that same "original" receptacle and it does not work either.

 

My architecture is ....as best as I can explain only have'n had this gear 3 weeks.....main house panel utility receptacle gets me directly on Phase"A" thru 2413S DualSerial. Across the same room is 2433 WirelessCoupler getting me onto Phase"B". I am assuming the data travels From ISY to Phase"A", across the room wireless to phase"B" receptacle, back to bus "over wire", thru AF breaker and up to bedroom "over wire" ??? Of the 12 odd devices I've installed this is the only location that has caused me grief so far. The length of wire from panel-to-receptacle in question is by no means substantially longer than the panel-to-switch (not on AFBkr) which works fine.

 

I have no problem swapping out breaker in panel as a test...although I'm still a little tired from wiring in 12 or so devices around the house. I work in electrical/automation engineering but not really technically "up" on this gear (yet). I'm certainly not "up" on the limitations of this technology....such as signal loss etc across house wiring etc.

 

All comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

M

[io_guy]

I have CH AFCIs in my bedrooms, no issues with Insteon Comms.

[ELA]

Hi MarcArsenault,

I am not the best at visualizing an install via a persons descriptions, others probably are. The Smarthome forum has several members that are very good at telling people about things that will hamper communications as well.

 

Since you are technically orientated I recommend making a small sketch detailing what you estimate the wire lengths and routing to be. I found this very helpful in diagnosing my install, especially as your install grows over time and if you encounter more issues.

All Insteon devices are not created equal. Some have stronger signal strengths than others and some have varying thresholds of detection. It is very possible for one device to work in any given location and another will not, if the signal strength is marginal.

 

Insteon signal strengths decrease as they propagate through house wiring. There are many devices referred to as signal suckers that then further attenuate the signal ( items that have across the line capacitors in them). You can do a search for those as they have been listed countless times.

Since your Install is fairly new I suspect you will require at least a few filterlincs as your system grows.

 

Can we assume you did the 4 tap test to confirm RF coupling is on different phases?

Since you are new to this I recommend you do some searching on communications issues. There are many, many posts talking about issues and solutions that do not necessarily include AFCI attenuation.

 

Without test equipment these types of issues are mostly trial and error. Having plug-able devices that you move around to test with are helpful in that regard. You can then move that plug-able device closer and then further away from the service cabinet, on any given circuit, to see where it works and where it might not.

 

Best of luck

[MarcArsenault]

So I guess I learned a little something.....nothing to do with the AFBrkr and all to do with the super signal sucker 32" plasma television plugged into the circuit. Live and learn I guess. You know the old saying.... a.s.s.u.m.e "*** of you and me". Easy fix....throw some more money at it / pl filter.

 

 

 

Thanks all for your comments

 

Cheers

 

M

[Brian H]

Make sure the filter is made for X10 or Insteon use.

Many generic PL Filters absorb X10 and Insteon signals as noise.