ISY Issues

[jmed999]

I have a new appliancelinc and have linked it. It was working fine for an hour or so but now the ISY says it can't communicate with it. I have tried everything and just rebooted the ISY. Since rebooting the ISY, the "Current State" in the Admin Console is blank but when I click on the on and off buttons in the ISY I can hear the appliancelinc turn on and off. The ISY is communication with the appiancelinc but it's like the Admin Console doesn't know it.

 

Any ideas on what could be wrong? When I have the event viewer up and on level 3 it says, "Received an ACK for a different device".

 

Not sure what to do.

[LeeG]

Post the event trace.

[jmed999]

Now the current state is showing up but the device is still changing state without showing in the Admin console.

 

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 19 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 2B 00 FF (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ERR 0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ST 255

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] OL 255

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] RR 28

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 13 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 23 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ST 0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:26 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 12 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:26 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:27 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 23 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:27 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:27 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ST 255

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 14 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 2B 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ST 0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:34 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 11 FF

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:34 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:37 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ERR 1

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:47 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 12 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 27 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:48 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:48 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ERR 0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:48 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ST 255

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:35 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 13 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:35 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:39 PM : [ 1D AA D2 1] ERR 1

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:43 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 12 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:43 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 11 FF

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Received an ACK for a different device

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:50 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 13 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:50 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:59 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 14 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:59 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:03 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 12 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00): Received an ACK for a different device

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:08 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 11 FF

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:08 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:14 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 13 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:33:14 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

[LeeG]

There is very poor communication with the ApplianceLinc location. Max Hops=3 Hops Left=2 is as good as it gets.

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Max Hops=3 Hops Left=0 is as bad as it gets and still have a response. The Hops Left is changing between commands which is also an indication of poor communication with the ApplianceLinc location.

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:21 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:27 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0.

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:31:48 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][1D.AA.D2-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

The following requests got no response from the ApplianceLinc. No 02 50 inbound messages. The error message is the result of the PLM echoing the command twice. Not an actual device response.

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:43 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 12 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:43 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 11 FF

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Received an ACK for a different device

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:50 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 13 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:50 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

The FilterLinc did not resolve the communications problem with the ApplianceLinc location.

 

 

If the Admin Console is not showing a change in State that is initiated at the ApplianceLinc, that is normal. The ApplianceLinc is a Responder only device. It has no Controller function so it cannot communicate local changes in state.

[jmed999]

I don't have a filterlinc in this device.

[LeeG]

Okay, my error. Thought the use of a FilterLinc had been mentioned in a previous post.

[jmed999]

 

 

If the Admin Console is not showing a change in State that is initiated at the ApplianceLinc, that is normal. The ApplianceLinc is a Responder only device. It has no Controller function so it cannot communicate local changes in state.

 

I may not have been clear. Sometimes I will change the state by clicking on the "On" or "off" in the Admin Console. I can hear the appliance linc click on and off but the ISY will not show the changed state.

 

Sounds like I'm just having communication issues.

[jmed999]

Oh, and what does, "received ACK for different device" mean?

 

Thanks!

[LeeG]

The expected sequence of messages looks like this

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 19 00

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:30:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.AA.D2 1C.FC.92 2B 00 FF (FF)

 

The first msg 02 62 is the serial command going to the PLM.

The second msg 02 62 with an 06 on the end is the PLM echoing the command it just received

The third msg 02 50 is the inbound response from the device.

 

The sequence that produced the error annotation follows

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1D AA D2 0F 11 FF

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

Tue 08/21/2012 08:32:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1D.AA.D2 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Received an ACK for a different device

 

The first msg 02 62 is the serial command going to the PLM

The second msg 02 62 with an 06 on the end is the PLM echoing the command is just received

The third msg is unexpected. It is another PLM echo. It should have been an inbound 02 50 response from the device. The msg structure does not match what is expected, the inbound device address does not exist so the compare of what should have been an inbound device address does not match the outbound device address, thus the message text.

 

There were two no device response sequences just before this. It may have gotten the PLM out of sync. Only a guess. This error will likely not occur once communication problems with the ApplianceLinc are resolved.

[jmed999]

Is it best to just start turning breakers off? I could test using the event log then turn a breaker off. Test again. Turn another breaker off. Test again. Continue that until I consistently get Max Hops 3 and Hops Left 2.

 

Is that the best way to find out what is causing the problem?

[LeeG]

That approach usually works. I actually do it the other way around. Turn them all Off, verify that communication is good as the problem could be something on the ApplianceLinc circuit itself. Once confirmed that the powerline is good turn things back On until the failures occur.

 

Some pitfalls. Some appliances/devices cycle On and Off so it may not be an absolute breaker On/Off. Also be sure not to lose phase coupling if the PLM and ApplianceLinc are on opposite phases. If there are known suspects unplugging those could be easier. Unfiltered UPS/PC etc equipment on the PLM circuit. PLM on a surge suppressor. Cell phone chargers, laptop chargers, some flat screen TVs can be unplugged. Turning a device Off is not enough as most device power supplies are still connected and active when plugged in.

 

It can be helpful to know how the rest of the Insteon devices are working. Running an Event trace at Level 3 to other devices around the house may show a pattern. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all approach to problems like this. The good news is once the powerline is good throughout the house, if something becomes unreliable it is usually easier to identify something new.

[jmed999]

Boy am I getting frustrated. Sometimes I wonder if all this time, effort, and money is worth it.

 

I turned all the breakers off except the one for my ISY and the appliancelinc. Everything was perfect (Max Hops =3 and Hops Left = 2). I slowly turned breakers on and tested. If the Hops left went below 2, I left that breaker off and moved on. Eventually I finished.

 

I then took a picture of the breaker alignment. I had a few breakers (problem breakers I'll call them) that were left off.

 

Then I was going to go breaker by breaker unplugging things until I had all the breakers on but with something unplugged from each breaker. In theory I would be left with a few things unplugged and all breakers on and max hops still at 2.

 

So I turned the 1st problem breaker on and started unplugging things one by one. As I did this I lost all control of the appliancelinc. I wasn't even getting a max or hops left reading. I then turned that breaker back off. The problem continued. I was shocked...I was just getting a max hops of 2 in this exact same configuration. Since I had a picture of the breaker alignment and problem breakers I decided to start turning the non problem breakers back off until the issue was resolved. I ended up turning them all off except the one for my ISY and my Appliance linc and still no control of the appliancelinc

 

I rebooted the ISY and the current state for the applianclinc was blank. I could hear the applianclinc turn on and off put was getting no hops reading and the current state remained blank. I then decided to turn all the breakers on since I can't leave them all off for days or until I get the issue resolved.

 

Now all the breakers are on and the other devices work fine. The current state for the applianclinc reads off and I can't turn it on or off.

 

This is frustrating!!!

 

Any ideas?

[LeeG]

Some devices cycle On and Off. If the ApplianceLinc does not work with all breakers Off you could have lost phase coupling. Or something that is powered from either the ISY/PLM breaker or ApplianceLinc breaker is cycling On/Off generating interference.

[jmed999]

I didn't lose phase coupling because the appliancelinc was turning on and off but not registering on the ISY. There was nothing to cycle on and off to cause the interference on the ISY or appliancelinc breaker. I think something is wrong with the ISY, or PLM. It does weird things at times. I'm always diagnosing problems.

[LeeG]

Is the Current State column blank for all the devices?

[jmed999]

I unplugged the appliancelinc. The current state is only blank for that device.

[LeeG]

There can be problems with the router/AV which block the push of data from the ISY to the Admin Console. This normally shows as the Current State column blank for all devic3es. If the Admin Console is showing state changes for other devices but not the ApplianceLinc when the ApplianceLinc is turned On/Off through the Admin Console that is very odd. The subscription to the Admin Console can expire if the Admin Console has been running for an extended period but that should stop all updates to the Admin Console, not just the ApplianceLinc.

 

As mentioned before, changing the state of the ApplianceLinc at the ApplianceLinc will not be reflected back to the ISY and Admin Console as the ApplianceLinc is a Responder only device.

 

When the ApplianceLinc is not showing a change in State by the Admin Console when the device is turned On/Off through the Admin Console does the Event Viewer show the command activity to and from the ApplianceLinc.

[jmed999]

The admin console had only been running for about 30 minutes.

 

I have not changed the state of the appliancelinc at the appliancelinc locally. I have only changed the state on my laptop in the Admin Console. When I do this I can hear the appliancelinc click on and off but the ISY doesn't reflect a change (about half of the time).

 

It does show in the Event viewer but only 2 lines (I think) and it doesnt not show an error nor does it show the hops.

 

Thanks for you help!

[LeeG]

The clicking indicates the commands are getting to the ApplianceLinc but the response from the ApplianceLinc to the ISY is not making it back to the PLM. The Hop counts information comes from the ApplianceLinc response.