Considering Insteon & ISY couple questions

[icerabbit]

I'm considering getting some Insteon Linc devices, primarily for the control of outdoor features like several sets of landscape lights, lamp posts, pond pump, pond lights, pool lights, ... and also have control via iPod/iPhone/iPad. Have individual on/off toggles and maybe a couple scenes, front yard on/off, back yard on/off, all on/off.

[ I may look into additional uses later down the road, but have a less common situation where many lamps or lamp sets can be controlled from three locations via a low voltage relay circuit (they are not 110v switches) ]

 

I would install several ApplianceLincs outside ( several existing 110v outside lines would each serve two or three different independently controlled functions ) and inside the house have one 8 button KeypadLinc and a RemoteLinc2, so that front garden features can be controlled from the wall near the front door, then at the back of the house/garden there could be an 8 button RemoteLinc to duplicate the KeypadLinc.

 

Noting that the different outdoor circuits are pulled from three different sub-panels in the house, but I believe Insteon would cover that base. If need be I believe could install some repeater or second KeypadLinc to cover distance or bridge phases. Or have the ISY central in the house, in the basement?

 

My questions regarding ISY:

 

Considering this is a new setup and multiple insteon devices would arrive as well as the ISY.

Do you do any programming through the units? Or does everything get done through ISY?

Specifically can ISY program or reprogram the buttons on the keypadlinc and remotelinc?

Can ISY copy the programming of a keypadlinc to a remotelinc?

... as looking at some ISY setup video, it seemed there was a fair amount of "busy" time as each individual change is made.

 

A quick look at some of the manuals for the insteon devices shows it involves a lot of pressing & back and forth to get things linked up. For my remote functionality, I think I could get away with the free iphone app and their smartlinc. But, I question the programming aspect ... and think the ISY could help, despite the added cost to the system and maybe increased complexity.

 

Additional question regarding time keeping & sunrise/sunset. I read that the smartlinc loses time but may have some sunset/sunrise functionality ... is that something I'd need the ISY for? To say this group of exterior lights on at sunset and off at 23:00?

 

Thanks for your help.

[oberkc]

Do you do any programming through the units? Or does everything get done through ISY?

 

All throught the isy, though you may, initially, need to put individual devices into linking mode.

 

Yes, the isy can configure individual buttons on you keypads.

 

Yes, the isy canconfigure remote buttons, but you need to put remotes, and most battery devices, into listening mode (manual describes how).

 

I am not entirely sure, but I do not believe yo can copy programming of one device into another. I am not sure that this even has meaning in the context of insteon scenes and isy programs.

 

Amount of "busy" time is dependent on quality of communications and complexity of scenes.

 

ISY can adjust for sunrise and sunset. Not sure about smartlinc, but I suspect it can, as well.

 

You WILL need a way to "bridge phases". Make sure you have at least one dual-band device on each leg of you electrical system. Alternatively you can install a passive signallinc. Or both. I still like access points for this purpose.

[icerabbit]

Thank you for your reply oberkc.

 

I am aware of the dual phase issue and hopeful that the insteon dual band devices will overcome that hurdle with semi-strategic placement. Crossing fingers the dual link devices will do their thing as designed, without me needing to invest in more equipment.

 

Setting up the remotelinc shouldn't be too bad. It was just an idea, that if I programmed the 8 button controller by the front door in a certain way, that I maybe could copy the commands from button a to a, b to b, ... rather than starting over for the remote.

[LeeG]

You will define an ISY Scene with a KeypadLinc button as a Controller and one or more devices as Responders. When the KPL button is pressed On/Off the Responders will follow. To add the RemoteLinc2 simply add the appropriate RemoteLinc2 button as an additional Controller to the same ISY Scene.

[oberkc]

hopeful

 

"hopeful" suggests a bit of hit-or-miss. Make sure you "verify" by following the instructions for each dual-band device.

 

copy the commands

 

There are no "commands" with insteon scenes. Make sure you add all insteon devices to the ISY and ALWAYS use the ISY to create scenes. Do not create scenes using the methods that come with each device (the instructions are based on a system without an ISY). If you do this, later adding a remote is as simple as adding applicable buttons to each existing scene. You do not have to "start over".

 

If you are referring to program "commands", then you simply add new conditions (responses to remote buttons) to existing programs. Again...no starting over.

 

BTW...I have a setup similar to the one you propose. Landscape lighting (four transformers) controlled by appliancelincs. All mine are inside, however, with wires exiting through conduit and boxes. Other line-voltage fixtures that comprise the landscape lighting scene are controlled by switchlincs. All are part of a single scene and come on and off automatically, based on sunset (on) and fixed times (off).

[icerabbit]

Thanks Lee and OberKc for the additional information.

 

I will do plenty of reading before getting started, and I will likely go the ISY route for the programming benefits.

 

The hopeful part is basically some reservations that after doing a little bit of research online, it doesn't seem to be all roses and sunshine when one embarks on the insteon endeavor, between some failing modules, lack of documentation, environmental complications etc.

 

The house that we live in is above average in size and has some additional complexities with its several mechanical systems. If the typical house has one electrical panel and maybe a sub panel, this house has 4. So more distance for signals to travel both wireline and wirelessly.

 

Oberkc, I had thought about switchlincs on the inside of the house to control the outdoor items, but that would limit me to one function on that line. I need for instance to be able to have independent control over a pond pump and a pond light separately on the same 110 line.

[oberkc]

it doesn't seem to be all roses and sunshine when one embarks on the insteon endeavor

 

I believe your perception is correct, but I am unsure how prevalent problems are. My suspicion is that a majority use insteon without trouble, but that the minority having trouble is significant. Regardless, problems, should they arise, can be solved, but it can often take a fair amount of troubleshooting time.

 

My earlier suggestions about being hopeful were not intended to suggest that there was no chance that you could run into difficulties. Rather, they were to suggest that you should be certain to couple the legs of your electrical system. I continue to be surprised at how much confusion this appears to cause and how there continues to be a steady stream of folks that don't, or did not know to do this, or don't know how to do this.

 

I recently checked several web pages and manuals on smartlinc, looking for advice on this. I must admit, the need to couple the legs of your electrical system was, in my estimation, not always obvious from these resources. Perhaps that is part of the problem? Fortunately, you have already recognized the need for this.