Triggerlinc woes - some work, some dont

[RichTJ99]

Hi,

 

So I have a total of 7 triggerlincs in my home/office. All 7 worked fine with my old house (using a ISY99I pro). I moved, bought a ISY 994 IR Pro and now I find that three triggerlincs seem to work fine. The other four do not.

 

If I open or close the three working ones, the PLM flashes indicating it "heard" the Triggerlinc and the ISY shows a status change. If I do the same on the other four triggerlincs, there is no response from the PLM (or ISY). I am doing all the testing in my office, all devices are within the same distance. I have tried pulling/changing batteries to see if that was the issue, but 4 just dont work.

 

If I have a battery & move the magnet close & away, I do see the device flash. It just seems like those four cant do anything.

 

Then I have the eight triggerlinc where the sticker with the address fell off & I cant figure what I should do about it.

 

Any suggestions on the four non-responsive triggerlincs?

 

Thanks,

Rich

[Vyrolan]

Have you tried factory resetting them? Remove the battery for 15 seconds then hold the set button down while putting the battery back in...keep holding until the led comes on (a few seconds)...then release.

[Brian H]

Your new home may have signal issues.

Have you verified you have at least one Dual Band Device on each phase of the house and that the communications tests in those Dual Band Devices have passed the test?

 

Also the Triggerliinc is an RF device so they also have to be with in receiving range of a Dual Band Device for processing.

[RichTJ99]

I did but I spoke to smarthome who is RMAing the units. I am glad I bought that 7 year warranty - when they offered it.

[RichTJ99]

I am sitting within 20 feet of the dual band PLM & the office has about 10 dual band devices, all within a 1000 sf.

 

The strange thing is on my desk is a working triggerlinc - no problem at all. I dont know if its a version .00 issue.

[RichTJ99]

So, I am having more issues now that my replacements came in. They sent me a 2843 tiggerlinc (new model number). I added it to the system with an auto discover, it found the triggerlinc but I have the same exact problem of no status change at all. It adds to the system but if i open& close the magnet, there is no change, no nothing.

 

I am sitting about 5 feet from an access point. I dont get why some triggerlincs work, some dont.

 

I even tried to setup a motion sensor, and that gets added but the status also doesnt change. I get an off from low battery alert, but nothing for motion or dawn dusk. How the heck can this be?

 

I have a brand new triggerlinc that doesnt work out of hte box and an older motion sensor that used to work but doesnt now.

 

WTH!

[RichTJ99]

So, it doesnt show any communication on level three with an open or close, but if i put it into programing mode & restore the device, it does seem to communicate.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [  21 43 23 1] Preparing Device 'Main: Media Room doo' for Restore

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [  21 43 23 1] Device 'Main: Media Room doo' ready for Full Restore

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [All         ] Writing 17 bytes to devices

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 21 43 23 0F 0D 00

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 23 0D 02           (02)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [21 43 23 0  ] Calibrating engine version

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [21 43 23 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [E2011BFD15FF1F01] Writing [E2011BFD15FF1F01]

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 E2 01 1B FD 15 FF 1F 01 8A

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:30 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 E2 01 1B FD 15 FF 1F 01 8A 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 27 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 41 A2 01 21 43 23 10 02 34 15 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [PLM         ] Group   1 : Writing Responder Link matching [21 43 23 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [E2011BFD15FF1F01]

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [21 43 23 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [E2021BFD15FF1F02] Writing [E2021BFD15FF1F02]

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 E2 02 1B FD 15 FF 1F 02 90

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:32 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 E2 02 1B FD 15 FF 1F 02 90 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 27 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 41 A2 02 21 43 23 10 02 34 15 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [PLM         ] Group   2 : Writing Responder Link matching [21 43 23 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [E2021BFD15FF1F02]

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [21 43 23 1  ] Link    2 : 0FE8 [0000000000000000] Writing [00..............]

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F EF 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C9

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:33 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F EF 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C9 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:34 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 23 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:34 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:34 PM : [21 43 23 1  ] Link    3 : 0FE0 : Writing High Water Byte

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:34 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DA

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:34 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DA 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:36 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 23 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:36 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:37 PM : [iNST-ERX    ] 02 51 21 43 23 1B FD 15 12 2F 00 00 01 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D9 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:37 PM : [Extended-Direct][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:37 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DA

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:37 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DA 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:38 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 23 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:38 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:39 PM : [iNST-ERX    ] 02 51 21 43 23 1B FD 15 12 2F 00 00 01 0F E7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D9 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:39 PM : [Extended-Direct][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:39 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 21 43 23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F E7 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 21.43.23 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F E7 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 06        (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 27 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 21.43.23 1B.FD.15 23 2F 00           (00)

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

[RichTJ99]

One more, I am sitting in my kitchen, I have 8 switches (dont ask) & 5 of them are dual band dimmers. I dont see how that could possibly cause a communication issue. I am using 3.2.6 if it matters.

 

EDIT: I grabbed an access point 2443 that was sitting in a box & plugged it in the kitchen where I am. Nothing at all, no communications.

 

However, if I open & close the magnetic contact, the LED on the access point 'blinks', this seems like an indication that it is 'hearing' the commands.

 

If I manually link (if i can figure that out) a triggerlinc to a light and it works does that prove anything?

[LeeG]

The Low Batt Off does not come from the Motion Sensor. The ISY primes that node with Off because the Motion Sensor does not send Off for the Low Batt node.

 

It did not sound like a TriggerLinc issue initially but replacements had already been RMAed. With old and new TriggerLincs and Motion Sensor not working there is an RF issue or powerline issue or perhaps a phase coupling issue.

 

There is no difference in Set button linking and ISY created link records. Manual Set button linking creates issues because the ISY is not aware of the link records. They will eventually be overlaid or deleted with half/broken links the result.

 

With the Access Point reacting to the TriggerLinc either a powerline issue is not allowing the signal to get back to the PLM or perhaps coupling is not working in that area.

[oberkc]

If I manually link (if i can figure that out) a triggerlinc to a light and it works does that prove anything?

 

It certainly suggests that these devices are working.

 

What is the electrical environment near the PLM? What other devices do you have plugged into the same outlets and circuit? Is your PLM plugged into any power strips or surge suppressors?

[LeeG]

This message (and there are several) with Hops Left=0 indicates comm. with 21 43 23 is operating at the very extreme of reliability.

 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

[RichTJ99]

So I have one particular older triggerlinc that does work with the ISY - lets call it trigger5. I setup two new RMA triggerlincs (which have a newer model number) trigger1, trigger2.

 

I brought trigger5 into the kitchen. If i open & close it, the ISY shows the changes. If I have trigger1 or trigger 2 opened or closed, they do nothing at all. I dont think its a communication issue if trigger5 which is 5 inches from trigger1 is able to have its commands 'seen' by the ISY994.

 

If I take trigger5 & open/close it, the access point LED flashes for open, and for closed - the ISY sees it. If I take trigger 1 or 2, and open and close it, the Access point LED flashes for open and closed - the ISY does NOT see it.

 

I checked the PLM links & i have about 200 links - far from the 1000 link limit.

 

Is there something I can do to test it?

 

In terms of testing a manual link, it was more to try to link two devices to the PLM, bypassing the ISY just to see if it would work from a communications standpoint showing that the issue was related to the ISY vs a communications issue.

 

I have an insteon dimmer I put in my closet two days ago but didnt link to my ISY (yet). I can use that as a testing device since there are no links, and when I add it to the ISY I could choose remove links which shouldnt polute the ISY link database.

 

Would that work?

[LeeG]

A count of 200 seems low. How many nodes are in the My Lighting tree? How many ISY Scenes have been defined?

 

Was the same exact count received for each of 3-4 Show PLM LInks Table runs. You could add the closet SwitchLinc to the ISY and verify the Admin Console will see state changes. That will verify the PLM has room for new links.

[oberkc]

it was more to try to link two devices to the PLM, bypassing the ISY just to see if it would work from a communications standpoint showing that the issue was related to the ISY

 

Is it even possible to link a PLM to an insteon device without the attached controller? I would be very surprised if the kinds of problems you are having are related to PLM-to-ISY communication problems.

[RichTJ99]

This message (and there are several) with Hops Left=0 indicates comm. with 21 43 23 is operating at the very extreme of reliability.

 

Sat 12/08/2012 12:11:40 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][21.43.23-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

I am assuming that it means its at the low end of reliability?

 

I just dont understand how I can have two triggerlincs within inches of each other, one works, one doesnt?

[RichTJ99]

A count of 200 seems low. How many nodes are in the My Lighting tree? How many ISY Scenes have been defined?

 

Was the same exact count received for each of 3-4 Show PLM LInks Table runs. You could add the closet SwitchLinc to the ISY and verify the Admin Console will see state changes. That will verify the PLM has room for new links.

 

Maybe I am not doing it correctly. Are you saying to run it 3 or 4 times?

 

I can do it tomorrow when no one is around to make sure no one is flipping lights on or off. I assume each change of a device would change the table?

[RichTJ99]

So one issue I am having trouble understanding, is how I can have the two devices, in the same room, the same model, one responds to the ISY, one doesnt. How can it be a communication issue if one device works fine?

 

On one hand, it cant be a defective device if I have all brand new ones, it also cant be a defective issue if the access points and PLM 'see' the change in status (based on their flashing in sync).

[oberkc]

It would not be the first time a brand new device is faulty were that your case. I am not sure that it is.

 

Could be on a different circuit, even if in the same room. Could be the load attached to the device. Could be production variance in the two devices.

[LeeG]

Yes, run Show PLM Links Table with Count 3 to 4 times in a row. Only when the same number of links is obtained can that number be considered accurate. Inbound Insteon traffic processed by the PLM during the Show PLM Links Table process will cause the link records being displayed to be skipped or duplicated. The result is a false Count when the display completes.

 

For a device to send a message and the ISY PLM process it there must be link records in the device pointing to the PLM and the PLM must have link records pointing to the device. The Restore Device trace shows there are link records in the device. That leaves either a communication problem or the possibility the PLM link database is full so it cannot accept the link records for the TriggerLincs. It would be a simple matter to check the PLM link record count except the process is unreliable when any Insteon traffic reaches the PLM. Thus it is necessary to run the Show PLM Links Table multiple times and believe the Count only when that count is the same on several Show runs.

 

oberkc

 

These are RF only TriggerLincs sitting side by side.

[ELA]

So one issue I am having trouble understanding, is how I can have the two devices, in the same room, the same model, one responds to the ISY, one doesnt. How can it be a communication issue if one device works fine?

 

On one hand, it cant be a defective device if I have all brand new ones, it also cant be a defective issue if the access points and PLM 'see' the change in status (based on their flashing in sync).

 

Hello RichT99,

 

One reason to explain why one device in a room can respond and another will not is marginal signal strength. A few posts back you posted a comm log, LeeG mentioned that it demonstrated marginal communications. I am unclear as to what devices that trace was for as compared to the question you posed in this post.

You can run comm logs of the two devices in question and compare them for max hops vs hops remaining.

 

Signal strength may be marginal overall in one room and thus some devices receive and some do not. All devices have a some variance in both their receive sensitivity and transmit signal strength. Also local signal suckers can have a greater affect on some devices than on others.

 

It is also very possible to receive a defective (weak) unit right out of the box. The problem is without a method to test signal strength you may never know you have a device with a weak transmitter. I have received one new device with a weak transmitter and two others that experienced a decline in transmitter signal strength over a short period after receiving them.

 

If your question was with regard to triggerlincs, both in the same room, are they mounted or free? You can do some testing with them if they are free and side by side by moving them around in the room to see if they work better in one area than another. Checking for possible zones where RF comms are more marginal.

 

Also consider orientation of the RF transmitter with respect to the receiver. Some RF devices communicate more effectively in one orientation that the other. The antenna inside these devices can be somewhat masked by the circuitry inside the device in certain orientations. This is most evident in the Remotelinc2.

[RichTJ99]

So my next steps should be to run a show a plm link table? Is there a good way to count records, or does it do that for you? I scrolled to teh end before & it looked like it was in the 200 range.

 

Again in the kitchen where trigger5 (works fine) and trigger1 (doesnt work at all with ISY), they are both sitting on my counter in a room with 5+ dual band switchlinc dimmers, as well as an access point in the same physical room.

 

It should be flooded with signal. If I count dual band switches, I must have at least 60 devices. Is it possible the dual band dimmers arent really dual band? Is there some sort of signal meter I could use?

 

Can wifi interfere?

[LeeG]

When the Show PLM Links Table has read all the PLM link records the Count button at the bottom of the window is active. Click the Count button for a count of records read for this Show PLM Links Table run. The Show PLM Links Table has to be done 3-4 times to see if it produces the same Count each time. Unless the Count is the same on several runs the count is not accurate.

[ELA]

RichTj99,

 

If you confirm the links with LeeG's help one other thing I might suggest:

 

Do you have a 2413S dual band PLM? If so run a level 3 trace holding the triggerlinc in question right next to the PLM.

If it is a 2412S then temporarily move an access point right next to the PLM and do the triggerlinc test.

[RichTJ99]

I have the dual band PLM.

 

PLM Table run #1:

992

PLM Table run #2:

992

PLM Table run #3:

992

 

No one is home & I am not moving.

 

So, I think I am really close to the link limit. Is there a way for it to detect & delete invalid links? I had a bunch of devices that were defective and have been returned, is it possible those links are still in the system?

[Brian H]

Did you add the replacements as a new device and then use the replace function to remove the old one and add the replacement in its place?

I believe that should remove all the old references to the removed device.