Problem Programming KeypadLinc

[mfranzel]

Hello all,

I am new to the world of INSTEON and the ISY. I was hoping to get some much needed help.

 

I have the ISY994i and have been able to program various Switchlincs and appliancelincs just fine with the ISY. However, I am having extreme difficulty adding KeypadLincs.

 

I was under the assumption I could use the ISY to program the various buttons on the KPL such as a "nightime" button to turn off all bedroom lights when I go to bed.

 

The biggest problem I am having is linking the KPLs to the ISY. The first thing I tried was putting the ISY into linking mode and pressing and holding the SET button on the KPL, but it doesn't link. So then I tried doing it manually by telling the ISY I wanted to link an 8-Scene KPL and manually typing in the address of the KPL. I then press and hold the SET button on the KPL and it seems to link.

 

I then have a list of devices like A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H.

When I click on one of the devices, it only shows me a couple of options, such as choosing toggle or non-toggle. There are no options to turn it off or on.

 

When I try to see device links table, it asks me to check one of my devices. Also, I can only run diagnostics, on B, none of the other buttons.

 

LONG STORY SHORT: I need help! I have no clue what I am doing. I do not know how to link and or program the KPLs to my ISY. Someone, please forgive me stupidity and please help me!!

 

THANK YOU!

[LeeG]

One of the problems is easy to answer. Secondary KeypadLinc buttons cannot be turned On and Off with Direct commands. The Insteon Direct On/Off commands have no placeholder for a button number. That is why no On and Off buttons when a Secondary KPL button node is selected.

 

The Primary Load control button, which should be A not B, is the only button that can be turned On and Off with a Direct command and have diagnostics run against.

 

I suggest Deleting the KeypadLinc from the ISY.

 

Use New INSTEON Device, enter the Insteon Address, Name of choice, leave Device Type set to default Auto Discover. Click Ok. It is not necessary to press Set button (or any button) on the KeypadLinc. That will remove any question about KPL nodes and names and use of the Set button.

 

To link KPL buttons, define an ISY Scene, drag/drop the KPL button of choice to the ISY Scene and select it as a Controller. Drag/drop whatever devices should be Responders. Note that the ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder so if the ISY Scene has multiple devices that should function as Controllers simply drag/drop then as Controllers. This ISY will automatically treat them as Responders as well as Controllers and cross-link them.

[mfranzel]

Thanks for your quick reply!

 

I deleted the KPL from the ISY and followed your instructions to add it correctly. However, after I add the KPL's info, I get the dialog box saying it is configuring, but then it simply disappears and the controller is not added. I also tried with a different KPL and the same thing happened. Am I doing something wrong or is there something wrong with my programming?

[LeeG]

I am assuming no messages of any kind were issued when the Progress Bar closed. This usually means the Insteon address is already defined.

 

If that is not the case run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Repeat the New INSTEON Device with the event viewer running and post the event trace.

[mfranzel]

Correct... no message of any kind... Below, please find the log. I have also restarted the ISY and PLM just to make sure it wasn't a communication issue. Thanks!

 

Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:49 AM : ---- Initializing the linked devices ----
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:49 AM : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ----
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:50 AM : ---- Add remaining devices ----
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:50 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 22 16 ED 0F 0D 00
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:50 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 22.16.ED 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:59 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 22 16 ED 0F 0D 00
Fri 01/25/2013 12:08:59 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 22.16.ED 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Fri 01/25/2013 12:09:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 22 16 ED 0F 0D 00
Fri 01/25/2013 12:09:08 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 22.16.ED 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Fri 01/25/2013 12:09:11 AM : ---- All Remaining Device Added ----
Fri 01/25/2013 12:09:12 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

[LeeG]

There is no communication with the KeypadLinc 22.16.ED. Three attempts were made to send commands to the KPL, it did not respond to any of them. Double check the Insteon address of the KPL label. When the KPL responds there will be Insteon messages in the event trace that start with 02 50 or 02 51 which are inbound messages to the PLM.

 

Are there Access Points on opposite 120v legs for coupling?

 

Be sure the PLM is not plugged into a power strip that has noise suppression. That will reduce the Insteon signal to the point where it might not make it out to devices. Other electronic devices powered on the same circuit as the PLM can also absorb Insteon signals.

[mfranzel]

Yes, I have access points on different circuits as well as many dual band devices. Right now, the KPL and the PLM are even in the same room. I also tried another one that is inside a tabletop enclosure and that doesn't work either.

[mfranzel]

And the PLM is plugged right into the wall.

[mfranzel]

Okay so I took a third KPL that I have not tried anythign with, followed your intructions and it connected fine. I think this is because I did not try to connect it with the SET button before. So I will try to reset the other KPLs to factory defaults and see what happens.

 

Here is the thing... it registers as "Unsupported Device:2.44" and only gives me access as if it were a regular switch. It has on and off buttons and I can only control button A (load).

[LeeG]

Assuming the PLM communicates reliably with the installed devices eliminates a PLM problem.

 

That leaves either the KPL itself (including how it is wired) or its install location. The simple way to eliminate location and test the KPL is to connect it to an Appliance cord (plug on one end, bare wires on the other) and plug the KPL into the PLM circuit. If it does not work there the KPL is suspect. I would try a factory reset of the KPL before returning it if it does not work at the PLM plug point.

 

The unsupported device means that particular KPL type was released after the ISY firmware being used. Sounds like 3.2.6 is installed which is pretty old as far as new Insteon devices that have been released. I suggest installing 3.3.10 (RC7). It is a Beta but has been stable. Unless a significant problem is identified it will be the next Official release.

[mfranzel]

Upgrading worked and I was able to add the KPL perfectly. Thank you so much for your help!!

[mfranzel]

So I created a scene, added my desired switches as responders and the KPL button as a controller. When I use the button on the controller to turn the scene on or off, the light on the KPL goes with the scene, but if I manually turn a light on my going to its switch, the light for the scene on the KPL doesn't turn on. Why is this?

 

Also, one of the responders is the load on another keypad link and when I turn the load on or off, that keypad link blinks and beeps at me...

[LeeG]

For all the devices in an ISY Scene to stay in sync they need to be added to the Scene as Controllers. The ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder so all the Controller/Responder devices are cross-linked by the ISY so they stay in sync. Remove them as Responders and add them back as Controllers.

 

Later KPLs have a beep feature such that when a button is pressed the KPL beeps. I don't think the ISY supports configuring that option. It will be necessary to turn that Off at the KPL. The KPL User Guide describes the process of turning button beep On and Off.

 

How many times does the KPL button blink when pressed? The combination of blinking and beeping may indicate an issue with the load. What type of KPL (dimmer or relay) and what type of load (incandescent, something else such as CFL or LEDs).

[mfranzel]

Sorry, I did not explain that very well.

 

Basically, I have a scene on my KPL called "Bath & Closet". When I push it, it toggles the bathroom light, bathroom fan, and closet light on or off. When I use the button on the KPL to turn the scene on or off, the light goes on or off with it. But, if I go into the closet and use the closet lightswitch to turn the light on, the KPL light doesn't light up.

 

I don't want to push the closet light button and have the bathroom lights go on as well. I just want to know from the KPL by my bedside if a light is on that I forgot to turn off.

 

As for the KPL that is blinking and beeping, it stopped doing that... not when any light goes on or off be it from a command from the ISY or manually using the switch, the KPL flickers.

[oberkc]

I don't want to push the closet light button and have the bathroom lights go on as well. I just want to know from the KPL by my bedside if a light is on that I forgot to turn off.

 

 

For that, I believe you will need a program. I don't believe insteon scenes can support such a scenerio. You will also need to create an additional scene, with the KPL button as the only device, as responder.

 

Your program would look something like:

 

if

status "bathroom light" is on

or status "closet light" is on

or status "bathroom fan" is on

then

set "scene with KPL button" on

else

set "scene with KPL button" off

[mfranzel]

That worked great! Thank you!

 

But now, my problems continue... In the bedroom, I have a KPL (non-dualband) on my nightstand in a tabletop enclosure and an appliancelinc, also not dualband. When the load to the KPL in the wall is ON, it causes the non dualband devices in my bedroom to not communicate. Why would it be doing this? Is it faulty or is it the way I hooked it up?

[Brian H]

Is the KPL a dimmer type and what type load is it controlling?

The load maybe noisy or a signal sucker. So when the load is On the power line Insteon signals can't get to the ApplianceLinc and maybe marginal when the load is Off but still activates the AppliancLinc.

[mfranzel]

The KPL in the wall is an On/Off and it controls a switched outlet... Aka my nightstand lamps.

 

And yes, you are correct. When the load is on (the lamps), signals do not get to the appliancelinc but when the load is off, the appliancelinc works perfectly.

[oberkc]

In general, if you have a situation where a device, when on, causes communication problems, I would first suspect the device is causing problems. If, when KPL on the wall is on, there are communication problems, what is the load. If the KPL on the wall controls your nightstand lights, what are these lights? Incandescent? LED? CFL? Something else?

 

If anything other than incandescent, there is risk of a really noisy device, or one which attenuates signals.

[mfranzel]

ALL of the light bulbs in my home are CFLs... All the same brand, all purchased at the same time. I do not understand why ONE load would be causing the issue. Could it be the switch itself?

[Brian H]

Well not all CFLs care 100% the same. One of them could be a problem.

Though my thoughts are. You have a very marginal signal to the ApplianceLinc and any added power line noise takes it over the edge.

Have you tried using the Event Viewer in level 3 and using My Lighting to turn it On and Off. While having the KPL with the problem load both On and Off?

[oberkc]

While I have no scientific proof of this, I also believe that CFLs can get noiser over time. Perhaps you are seeing the results of the normal aging process?

[mfranzel]

well DAMN. I never thought CFLs could cause this. I took the CFLs out of the lamps and turned on the load from the KPL then tried turning on and off the ApplianceLinc and had no trouble!

 

I am a bit stuck though... all of the light fixtures in my home (not lamps, only built in lights) use a new type of bulb that is CFL only... it has a special "twist lock" base and they cannot be replaced with any other bulb besides these ones. My lamps all use regular CFLs. However, I do not seem to have this problem anywhere else.

 

What do I do about this? What about LED bulbs for the lamps? I like using CFLs because I can get ones that put off a white light instead of yellow.

[Brian H]

Well sometimes a different brand of CFL will act differently.

Some have used the small Leviton wire in filter between the Insteon KPL or SwitchLinc Load connection and the load.

Small enough to fit in most electrical boxes.

http://www.smarthome.com/4835/Leviton-6 ... ock/p.aspx.

 

Try running a test with the ApplianceLinc, the ISY Controller and the CFLs Off.

With the Event Viewer in level 3 reporting. Turning it On and Off.

If the hop count is 1 or 0 and changes randomly. You may have a poor signal to that ApplianceLinc and the CFL is enough to stop communications. Improving the signal to the ApplianceLinc maybe enough to overcome the CFL noise or signal absorptions.

[mfranzel]

So I would put the Leviton device inside EACH electrical box of every switch? First, that is going to be horribly expensive and second, my electrical boxes are packed so tightly, there is no way of getting them in there.

 

I ran the test you asked for multiple times and every result says "Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0" and the ApplianceLinc turns on and off perfectly. I think it is the bulbs in my bedside lamps...

 

Would LEDs be a bad choice?