Need help setting up KeyPadLinc scene

[jwilliams]

Michael - your instructions in the users guide in setting up scenes are simply too simplistic ... especially as it pertains to cross-linking.

 

Situation - Two KeypadLincs controlling Floodlights on InLineLinc. I need Button A of each KeyPadLinc to turn the lights on and off. When lights on, the Button A on each KeyPadLinc should be lit. When lights off, Button As are off.

 

Would seem I should simply be able to establish a scene with each KeyPadLinc A as Controller (cross linking them) and InLineLinc as responder. Does not work however in situations where turn lights on using one KeyPad and off using another. When turn lights on, Button As on both KeyPads properly lit. But when turn off, the Button A NOT used when turning light off remains lit.

 

How do I set up a scene cross-linking two KeyPadLincs such that buttons will go on and off properly in cases where one KeyPad used to turn on light, other keypad used to turn off light?

[LeeG]

The ISY Scene definition is correct

 

KeypadLinc 1 button A - Controller

KeypadLinc 2 button A - Controller

InLineLinc - Responder

 

If the A buttons do not stay in sync either the link records did not get created correctly because of comm errors which should have updates pending, noted to the left of the KPL nodes with Green Icons

 

Or there is comm issue between the KPLs such that the Off message generated by one is not being received by the other.

 

Suggest a right click on the KPL Primary node, select Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table followed by a click on the Compare button when the display is complete. The Compare results will show what link records are expected and exist in each KPL. Post the Show Device Links Table results.

[jwilliams]

Also tried controlling this situation through programming. It did not work. Turn lights on with one Keypad and off with another. The button on the KeyPad not used to turn light off remains lit. Even if

 

1. Scene established where both KeyPads are Controllers to light that is responder.

 

AND

 

2. This program also written:

 

IF

 

Status 'Outside_RearFloods' is On

 

THEN

 

Set 'Deck_KeyPad / Deck KeyPad - A' On

Set 'Guest_KeyPad / Guest_KeyPad - A' On

 

ELSE

 

Set 'Deck_KeyPad / Deck KeyPad - A' Off

Set 'Guest_KeyPad / Guest_KeyPad - A' Off

 

 

With just the scene, just the program, or even both running .... when I turn the light on with one KeyPad and off with another, the button on the KeyPad NOT used to turn the light off remains lit.

 

 

Honest to god, I just don't understand how, why people enjoy going through the set-up process with this product. Its a nightmare.

[LeeG]

Run the Show Device Links Table as suggested above. It sounds like there is an Insteon Mesh Network problem. Are any electronics at the PLM plug point (other than PLM) on a FilterLinc?

 

Is there a pair of Access Points for phase coupling that have been verified as being in RF range of each other and on opposite phases?

[jwilliams]

Thank you for the help Lee.

 

But, I simply don't have the time, tolerance, patience to mess with the complicated ISY diagnostic process. I've already spent 2 1/2 hours trying to cross link these 2 keypad buttons to a light with scenes and/or programs. I'm past being fed up with it. While you're not supposed to do it ... I manually cross-linked the two KeyPad buttons outside the ISY environment. It now works. And while manually linking outside the ISY could cause problems down the road ... I just want the thing to work right now. When I encounter problems later ... I'll deal with it then.

[LeeG]

It will cause problems down the road. Likely harder to diagnose than what you have now.

 

You have an Insteon Mesh Network problem. Until that is resolved you will continue to have problems with future activity.

[jwilliams]

Yeah, well ... it works now. Ironic that I can easily, manually link two KeyPads together such that they work in concert with a light. But, after 2 1/2 hours of trying to accomplish the same thing with an ISY, through both scenes and programming, I come up empty handed.

 

When I look myself in the mirror, after weeks of on and off effort to transition from SmartLinc to ISY, I find myself asking ... why again did I find it necessary to inflict so much pain, for so little gain?

 

The bottom line - it is far easier to install the KeyPads, establish all the links in a manual process, THEN add them to the ISY. And, don't monkey around with KeyPads once they're in the ISY. Unfortunately, that's what I'm discovering.

[LeeG]

There is a communication problem between the PLM location and some of the devices. After not being able to write link records from the PLM location, why would one expect to be able to read link records as evidenced by not finding the ApplianceLinc when adding the KPL. I understand the frustration of wanting things to work by simply plugging them in but achieving good Insteon communication is rarely that easy. The electrical powerline was established to provide power to the various electrical and electronic devices found in and around a home. The electrical system along with the various devices powered from it were not designed to carry a powerline signal injected on the 120v sine wave. It can be made to work, there are thousands of Insteon users scattered across this country and other who are ultimately satisfied. However, the few that just plugged in and wired in their devices and they all worked are the true exception.

 

Likely the PLM plug point has sources of interference, either noise or signal attenuation that must be identified and corrected to obtain a reliable Insteon network. In addition reliable phase coupling is essential. There is no doubt in my mind that a reliable Insteon network can be achieved but that will not happen by consciously choosing to ignore the issues, in favor of looking into them later. And then compounding the problem by doing things like linking outside the HA environment. I can only speculate how those symptoms will be described when they surface and what will be blamed for them.

[oberkc]

The bottom line - it is far easier to install the KeyPads, establish all the links in a manual process, THEN add them to the ISY. And, don't monkey around with KeyPads once they're in the ISY. Unfortunately, that's what I'm discovering.

 

I am with LeeG on this. I, too, believe you have a communication issue between your PLM and rest of your system. This tends to suggest that the PLM is plugged into an outlet or circuit with other things that don't play well with insteon. My impression is that the most common cause of this is plugging in the PLM into outlets near computer stuff, including surge suppressors, UPS, and lots (and lots) of other gadgets.

 

If you are having trouble communicating with the PLM, then...yes...it will probably be easier to manually link your devices and ignore the PLM. Once you figure out the PLM, however, I respectfully disagree that this method is easier.

 

When I look myself in the mirror, after weeks of on and off effort to transition from SmartLinc to ISY, I find myself asking ... why again did I find it necessary to inflict so much pain, for so little gain?

 

I assume that you transitioned in order to exploit some capability in the ISY that is lacking in the smartlinc. I am curious, however. Did you install the ISY/PLM in the same location as the smartlinc?

[jwilliams]

No, I didn't. I attached it to a separate router in another room.

 

As Lee predicted though, making manual links outside of the ISY has resulted in a royal mess. I am waking up this morning to all kinds of issues with KeyPads not operating correctly.

 

I am ready to throw in the towel now on ISY and go back to SmartLinc. I'm going to open up a new topic to ask about the best way to accomplish that.

 

We were happy with SmartLinc. The interface was simple, clean. Best of all, it was accessed through a webpage, so was device agnostic. (4 iPads, 2 iPhones, 3 Android devices ... all worked with ease). And the interface came with SmartLinc. I only needed the ISY to run a few motion detectors and thought the transition would be smooth. Unfortunately, after weeks of on and off effort, I now have a mess of a system. Devices don't operate properly, or at all. Tons of error messages when I attempt any kind of diagnostics. And I'm getting all kinds of pushback on leaving the SmartLinc interface. What used to work extremely well and serve all our needs, absent motion detectors, I have now destroyed by trying to install this ISY. Its been an extremely frustrating, painful, time consuming experience. Basically a wasted effort.

 

I need to find the cleanest way possible to back out of ISY and get back to SmartLinc.

 

5 keypads

15 dimmers and switches

4 appliancelincs

1 inlinelinc

1 lamplinc

 

1 royal mess

[LeeG]

See my post to the other topic.

[oberkc]

Make sure you put your smartlink back in its original location. I suspect it, too, will have difficulty at the location where you added your ISY. Were you to put the ISY where you had your smartlinc, you may find the problems go away.