Curious KPL8 running program / scene effect

[jjwinston]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have a KPL8 where the main contols a wall plug with a lamp attached. I have also linked this to a Lamplinc that controls another room light. This is called the "Family Room" scene. On the H button of the KPL8 I run a program - called "Night" that sets several items including a scene that sets a reduced level on the Main and on the Lamplinc. The curious part is this. If I run the "Night" program On and then Off, the next time I run the "Family Room" scene - from the main button - the lamplinc goes to 100% but the wallplug - controlled directly by the main - only goes to the reduced setting.

 

Also curious, this does not happen if I run this series of events from the ISY99i or if I run them from another KPL8 that has the same controls - but the main in this case does not control the wallplug.

 

I hope this is clear. I will gladly answer any questions that might make it clearer.

 

The KPL8's were purchased at the same time (apx November - December 2012) so they should be pretty current.

 

Thanks!

[Brian H]

You are controlling a wall outlet with a dimmer type KPL?

Not safe to use a dimmer on a wall outlet. Too easy to plug a device not made to be dimmed plugged in.

[MikeD]

Brian,

 

Although you are probably correct in that it is unsafe to do so, (I am not an electrician) I question what else would you have plugged into a switched outlet? I have a KPL installed controlling 1/2 of an outlet that was obviously setup to be used for a plug-in lamp in one of my rooms. I never thought about the ramifications of plugging something else into that outlet since that is the obvious purpose for the outlet.

 

~Mike

[MikeD]

JJ,

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you. Just trying to digest what you were trying to say.

 

Is your KPL8 a 2486DWH8? Just trying to clarify. So the KPL-A button controls an outlet and also is a controller of the 'Family Room' Scene?

 

If you are pressing the KPL-A button it uses the On Level (Applied Locally) of the KPL so take a look at that setting.

 

The On Level of the KPL in the 'Family Room' Scene would be used if the Scene is called by a program.

 

~Mike

[LeeG]

jjwinston

 

Post the Program(s) involved. Right click Program name, select Copy to Clipboard and paste to forum. Also the Scene(s) involved. Images are still being suppressed so unless you have the means to put the images on another host Server simply define the Scenes with text

 

Scene X

What are the Controllers

What are the Responders

 

Scene Y

What are the Controllers

What are the Responders

 

etc.

 

As Mike already mentioned using Main A or button H on the same KPL as the Controller the outlet level is controlled by the Local On Level. When the controller is not a KPL button on the KPL with the load attached, then the KPL response is determined by the Responder On Level for the respective controller. Insteon is very flexible regarding how each Controller can have a different Responder On Level for each Responder but it makes changing those values on the fly more complex. The ISY does so much automatically when ISY Scenes are defined or altered through the Admin Console it is not always obvious just how many different values have to be changed dynamically to make it all work together. That is why it is important to see the actual Programs posted along with the Scene definitions.

 

If not on 3.3.10 that should also be an activity. Earlier images going back to 3.2.6 might not be getting the Local On Level set correctly. Also if on an earlier image now, once on 3.3.10 right click the KPL primary node, select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine to be sure the ISY has the correct Insteon Engine information.

[Brian H]

Well from all I have read. A dimmer on an outlet is against the electrical code.

 

Someone not familiar with the setup. Plugs in a portable fan, vacuum cleaner, Nondimmable CFL or LED Bulb in a lamp and boom there goes the KPL or the device plugged into it.

[johnnyt]

Brian,

 

Although you are probably correct in that it is unsafe to do so, (I am not an electrician) I question what else would you have plugged into a switched outlet? I have a KPL installed controlling 1/2 of an outlet that was obviously setup to be used for a plug-in lamp in one of my rooms. I never thought about the ramifications of plugging something else into that outlet since that is the obvious purpose for the outlet.

 

~Mike

A typical (non dimmable) CFL bulb in the lamp would not work with a dimmer. Don't forget to take it out or replace it with a KPL relay when you move (if you leave the HA behind)

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[MikeD]

Johnny- Yes, that would be correct as also would not work properly with a plain dimmer.

 

Brian- All good points and if you are doing your own device replacements you are liable for damages inflicted upon yourself. I have seen you mention this point in other posts and never thought twice about replacing the switch with a dimmer before you brought the subject up. I have had an X-10 dimmer module there for a good 15 years before replacing everything with Insteon. That switched outlet is used for room lighting since there is no overhead lighting in the room. Your comments do make the point that I would have to replace that KPL if I were to sell my home. Thank you!

 

I apologize to jjwinston, my intention was not to hijack his post.

~Mike

[jjwinston]

Thanks for all the input. First, I never gave a thought to the dimmer on the outlet since these outlets were designed to have lamps on them. I guess you would never want to have an iron lung atached to them even without a dimmer. I will label this outlet as "Dimmable" and I do plan to remove all my Insteon when I move.

 

So here are the particulars of the scenes and programs. I did check the Local setting for the Main-A. It was at 100%. I set it to 99% just to confirm that it had a current setting, but this made no difference.

 

This is the scene that runs the Family Room Lights

 

Family_Room_Lights

FRH_KP-A-Outlet (controller)

Fam_Room_Lamplinc (responder)

Sliding_Door_KP - G (controller)

 

Here is the scene built to be run from the program for the KPL button

 

zKitFamRoom_Night

1st_F_Hallway_Lights_Front (responder set to 35%)

Ist_F_Hallway_Lights_Back (responder set to 35%)

FRH_KP-A-Outlet (responder set to 35%)

Fam_Room_Lamplinc (responder set to 35%)

Hallway_Kitchen_Overheads (responder set to 0%)

Kitchen_Sink_Light (responder set to 0%)

Sliding_Door_KP - A (responder set to 0%)

Sliding_Door_Kitchen_Overhead (responder set to 0%)

 

Here is the program that runs the Night scene

 

If

Control 'Fam_Room_Kitchen / FRH_KP-A-Outlet / FRH_KP-H' is switched On

Then

Set Scene 'Scenes_for_Kitch_Programs / zKitFamRoom_Night' On

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'Scenes_for_Kitch_Programs / Scenes_for_S_D_KPL_LEDS / H_S_Door_KPL' On

Set Scene 'Scenes for Foyer_Light_Progra / Foyer_KPL_LED_C' On

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Thanks!

jjwinston

[LeeG]

Since there are no Adjust Scene statements in the posted information it must be the KPL itself that is returning to the last Bright (On Level). The newest SwitchLincs have a Resume Bright feature. It may be the latest KPLs have the same feature. What is the KPL firmware level? It is displayed on the second line in the right pane when the KPL node is selected.

[jjwinston]

Thanks LeeG,

 

The KPL is

 

(2486D) Keypadlinc Dimmer 8 Buttons v.41

 

It is pretty new. BTW, I have not updated the ISY to the latest version (next on the list). It has been running 3.2.6

 

jjwinston

[jjwinston]

The fix for this was to write a simple program for the Main-A button

 

If

Control 'Fam_Room_Kitchen / FRH_KP-A-Outlet' is switched On

Then

Set Scene 'Scenes-Fam-Kitchen / Family_Room_Lights' On

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

And a mirror for the off.

 

Thanks for the input!