Goose66

How 'bout Program1: If Control 'EntryMotion-Sensor' is switched On And Status 'EntryLights' is Off And From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) Then Run Program 'Program2' (Then Branch) Else - Nothing - and Program2: If Control 'EntryLightsSwitch' is switched On And Control 'EntryLightsSwitch' is not switched On Then Set Scene 'FrontPorchControl' On Wait 3 mintues Set Scene 'FrontPorchControl' Off Else - Nothing -

No, I agree with your assesment. While the scene may not be referenced in another program, could another program be calling the THEN branch of this program? EDIT: Yes, this makes the most sense, because it appears for the log entries that it is not just the scene 'Daily Maintenance / Nightly All-Off' that is being triggered but the entire THEN branch of the 'Nightime All - Off' program that is running.

You are going to need more information Does it always occur 5 seconds after the program executed by the Garage motion detector? If so, we need to see the contents of that program.

I understand your problem, and it is frustrating. The issue is that the keypad button is a controller in the scene (Scene A) that controls the light, and therefore the keypad button status light reflects the status of that scene, not the status of the light. My solution has been to add the keypad buttons as responders to the All Lights scene. A keypad button can be a controller in one scene (Scene A) and a responder in other scenes, such as the All Lights scene. With 4 keypads and presumeably six or seven buttons each, that is a lot of responders in one scene. It should not be a problem, though.

If you want the originally posted sequence, then you are going to have to have two or more status programs, e.g. PanicStage1, PanicStage2, etc. You will have to set each to true with sucessive commands. The other problem that you have, as pointed out by the first responder, is that the first down-down may be two sucessive offs, or a fast-off, depending on how quick they are done, so that adds at least one additional program. So, in pseudo-code, you have: Three status programs with no conditions or code: 'PanicStep1', 'PanicStep2', and 'PanicStep3' Program 'PanicSeqTimer' with the following: If - No Condidtions - Then Wait 5 seconds Run Program 'PanicStep1' (Else Path) Run Program 'PanicStep2' (Else Path) Run Program 'PanicStep3' (Else Path) Else - No Actions - Program 'PanicSeq1' with the following: If Control 'ToggleLinc' is switched off And Program 'PanicStep1' is false Then Run Program 'PanicStep1' (Then Path) Run Program 'PanicSeqTimer' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - Program 'PanicSeq2' with the following: If Control 'ToggleLinc' is switched off And Program 'PanicStep1' is true And Program 'PanicStep2' is false Then Run Program 'PanicStep2' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - Program 'PanicSeq2a' with the following: If Control 'ToggleLinc' is switched fast off And Program 'PanicStep1' is false Then Run Program 'PanicStep1' (Then Path) Run Program 'PanicStep2' (Then Path) Run Program 'PanicSeqTimer' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - Program 'PanicSeq3' with the following: If Control 'ToggleLinc' is switched on And Program 'PanicStep1' is true And Program 'PanicStep2' is true And Program 'PanicStep3' is false Then Run Program 'PanicStep3' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - And finally program 'PanicSeq4' with the following: If Control 'ToggleLinc' is switched off And Program 'PanicStep1' is true And Program 'PanicStep2' is true And Program 'PanicStep3' is true Then - Panic! - Else - No Actions - Not my cup of tea, but it should work. Note that this will detect any 2 downs followed by an up and then a down in the 5 seconds, regardless of other interspersed commands. For example, down, up, down, down, up, up, down in 5 seconds will trigger the panic. You would think the way to remedy this would be to put Else branches in the programs to clear all the status programs if something is out of sequence, but this would introduce a horrendous circular logic issue since you cannot seperate trigger events of a program from IF statement conditions in the ISY programming model.

Try this: If Control 'Guest Bath Vanity' is Switched OFF And Control 'Guest Bath Vanity' is not Switched ON Then Set 'Guest Bath Tub & Toilet' 1% Set 'Guest Bath Toe Kick' 80% Set 'Guest Bath Vanity' 20% Wait 2 hours Set 'Guest Bath Tub & Toilet' Off Set 'Guest Bath Toe Kick' Off Set 'Guest Bath Vanity' Off This should do exactly what you want

Yes, control. That one was freestyle. Normally, if I am suggesting a solution, I will code it up and test it first, to make sure I am not crazy. But in this case, I was just brainstorming on Jack's idea.

Ooh...I like the idea of Fast On/Fast Off enabling or disabling the moiton sensor programs. Expanding on the idea, there may be times when you turn the light on and don't want it to turn off 5 minutes after motion. For example, when I am working on a project in my garage, I turn the light on when I go into the garage, but my entry also triggers the motion sensor. If I sit still for 5 minutes, like tinkering with some part for example, then the light turns off. So you could use both Fast On and Fast Off to disable the program: If ( Command 'Garage Light' is switched Fast On Or Command 'Garage Light' is switched Fast Off ) And Command 'Garage Light' is not switched Off Then Disable Program 'GarageMotion' Else Enable Program 'GarageMotion' This program would allow the light to stay on or off regardless of motion in the room. Further, disabling the program should cancel any running instance of the program that may be in a Wait before a pending Off (for example if motion was detected before the switch was double tapped). A subsequent Off (or any other command) would turn the light off and re-enable the motion program. Very Nice!

One of the things to think about in picking an approach is the quirks in the event-driven programming model of the ISY (yes, the inability to differentiate between trigger events and IF conditions being an imporant one). Your programs need to be clear so you can figure out what you were trying to do six months from now when something starts misbehaving. For me, clarity comes from simplicity; that is why I favor the single program approach with all the conditions for triggering the program and appropriate responses right there in one place. The politically correct thing would be to say each approach has merits, but my aversion to political correctness (and the anonymity of this forum) oblige me to point out that the approach provided above, while I understand how it works, is anything but clear or simple. Further, doesn't the multi-layering of the programs exacerbate the slower response of the ISY program approach to motion sensors over Insteon linking?

Why would you need a seperate program to turn the light off? You want to turn it off 5 minutes after the last motion (the last "switched on"), right, regardless of what motion detector sent it? Rand's three programs allows the light to be turned off after the last Off is received from one of the motion detectors. This really doesn't make any sense, in that it would depend on the respective settings of the motion sensors and then add five minutes to it for the off. Simply jumper the motion sensors to send Ons only and set the pot for the timing all the way counter-clockwise. The motion sensors will send Ons every 30 seconds while motion is detected. With the single program suggested above, the light will turn On on first motion from either sensor, and then will turn off 5 minutes after last motion is detected by either detector.

TechGuy, You are right. This seems most practical to implement as a single program. The second of your programs is the way I would implement it, and should work just fine, except for one catch: If the program is running, and sunrise occurs, then it will stop running, and you may miss the off. In other words, if motion triggers the light less than 5 minutes before sunrise, then the program will turn the light on. However, because you cannot differentiate between IF conditions and triggering events in the ISY programming model (a serious limitation, IMO), the program will be triggered again at sunrise, cancelling the current running program (which is waiting for 5 minutes to send the off) and executing the ELSE portion of your program. So you can do the three programs and folder conditions that oberk suggested, or simply have one additional program that cleans up your outdoor lighting at sunrise. Because this situation arises a lot in my outdoor lighting programs, I have one program that turns off all outside lighting at sunrise to account for this "boundary condition."

The SHN Utility Suite and SmartHome drivers run on Windows 7 just fine. However, I have a 2414 PLC and not a 2412U PLM. I do not have to set any COM port address, it justs finds the PLC and connects.

Because of the programming architecture of the ISY, you will find that using ELSE is rarely the right solution. This is something I have complained about for a long time (trigger conditions vs. IF conditions), but there doesn't appear to be any improvements coming anytime soon.

You can have multiple programs tied to the same events. So to accomplish what you desire, I suggest writing two additional programs and tying them to the events, not the existing programs. The first should just be a state program "DrivewayMotionState" inidicating that the motion sensor in your driveway (#1) was tripped: If Control 'Outdoor / Driveway Motion' is switched On Then Wait 30 seconds Run Program 'DrivewayMotionState' (Else Branch) Else - Nothing - This program will become true when motion in the driveway is detected and stay true for 30 seconds after the last motion. Otherwise, it will be false. Your second program "HallLightonMotion" will use the first program and the second motion sensor (#2) to trigger the hall light: If Control 'Outdoor / Front Door' is switched On And Program 'DrivewayMotionState' is True Then Set 'Main Floor / Hall Light' On Wait 3 mintues Set 'Main Floor / Hall Light' Off Else - Nothing - Note that you may want to add an additional trigger to the timer program to cancel the pending Off for the hall light if the corresponding switch is touched. For instance, if you walk in the front door from the driveway (the hall light will be on) and then immediately turn the hall light off, or switch it on (even if it is already on), then you may want to cancel the pending Off command in the HallLightonMotion program after the Wait expires. For example: If Control 'Outdoor / Front Door' is switched On And Program 'DrivewayMotionState' is True Or ( Control 'HallLightSwitch' is switched On And Control 'HallLightSwitch' is not switched On ) Then Set 'Main Floor / Hall Light' On Wait 3 mintues Set 'Main Floor / Hall Light' Off Else - Nothing -

That is good news. But how did UD do it? Was the ability already in the 2420M?

This is definitely a problem with the 2420 MS with jumper 4 installed. When jumper 4 not installed, when the MS detects motion, it sends an ON and starts a countdown timer internally. The duration of the timer is determined by the leftmost POT. For example, if it is set to fully counter-clockwise, then the MS will send an ON and wait at least 30 seconds before sending an OFF. If it is set in the middle, the duration is about 4 minutes. Any motion detected during the countdown timer resets the timer, although no additional ON is sent. Installing jumper 4 means that no OFF is sent, however, the MS will not send any new ON command until the countdown timer expires, even if motion is detected (and the light flashes). So, that is why it is important to turn POT 1 fully counter-clockwise. The MS will send an ON on motion, then send subsequent ONs only after 30 seconds of no motion and then motion. If your POT 1 is set higher than this, then you may not be receiving subsequent ONs within the 2 minute period in order to reset your timer.

It may be me, but I prefer to let the ISY respond to motion. This adds a slight delay (approx. 1 second), but it is tolerable. Plus this creates greater flexibility in responding to motion, such as if the light is on or a scene is set, leave it alone. Turn pot 1 all the way counter-clockwise and install jumper 4. This way you will get On commands from the MS every 30 seconds or so when there is motion. Then write a program to perform occupancy sensing function, such as: If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And Status 'Outdoor / Garage Keypad-Pizza Delivery' is not On And Control 'Outdoor / Driveway Motion-Sensor' is switched On Then Set Scene 'Outdoor / Driveway Floods on Motion' On Wait 8 minutes Set Scene 'Outdoor / Driveway Floods on Motion' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Each On sent by the MS resets the timer, so the light will stay on as long as there is motion. Also, if any intervening scenes or switches are set, such as 'Pizza Delivery' above, the timer is also canceled, so that the light turned on in the scene won't be turned off by an exisitng countdown timer.

It depends on the way you use your motion sensor (MS), but if you use it in the standard ISY way, your MS just sends ON commands (no OFFs) and your program turns the light on, waits for a set period of time, and then turns the light off. If this is the case, then checking the status of the light won't work because once the MS turns on the light, subsequent ON commands from the MS won't reset the timer, so you get no "occupancy" function from your MS. What you need to do is "turn on" your flag program (i.e. run the "Then" branch) in reaction to ON commands from the same controllers(s) that activate the scene. One way to do this is write a program 'Scene Activated' with all of the controllers for your scene in the if statement: If ( Control 'Main Floor / Foyer Light' is switched On And Control 'Main Floor / Foyer Light' is not switched Off ) Or ( Control 'Main Floor / Foyer Remote' is switched On And Control 'Main Floor / Foyer Remote' is not switched Off ) Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program should track the status of the scene controlled by your controllers (e.g. a scene with two controllers 'Foyer Light' and 'Foyer Remote' in this case). Note this only works for ON commands to the scene. FAST ON, FADE UP, and BRIGHT will activate the scene accordingly but not put your flag program in the on state. Your MS can then be tied to a program like this: If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And Program 'Scene Activated' is False And Control 'Main Floor / Foyer Motion-Sensor' is switched On Then Set 'Main Floor / Foyer Light' On Wait 8 minutes Set 'Main Floor / Foyer Light' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Good Luck

Well, that's exactly my point. If we could specify trigger conditions in the ISY, i.e. the program should run when KPL-B is switched on but NOT when the status of NightimeWaitFlag changes (as I described above), then that problem wouldn't exist and the single program with the ELSE branch could accomplish what was needed. I think we would find that adding this ability to the ISY would dramatically cut down on the number of programs required as well as make programming much simpler and easier to understand.

I think everyone can agree that your solution (three programs and folder conditions) is more complex than the first example provided that could be implemented if one could specify the trigger conditions. If Control 'KPL-B' is switched On (trigger) And Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' is False Then Wait 1 second Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Then Path) Wait 5 seconds Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path) Else Set Scene 'NightTimeKitchen' On Set Scene 'NightTimeBedroom' On Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path)

Precisely. Of course, then you have a conventional wiring scheme, which is the point.

Well, you should be able to do this: If Control 'KPL-B' is switched On And Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' is False Then Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Then Path) Wait 5 seconds Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path) Else Set Scene 'NightTimeKitchen' On Set Scene 'NightTimeBedroom' On Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path) But unfortunately, you can differentiate between conditions, such as the "Control 'KPL-B' is switched On", that you want to trigger the program and conditions, such as "'Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' is False", that you just want to check. This is why you will rarely use the Else branch of a program. So, given this limitation in the ISY, you have to write two programs (three, actually, couting the status program 'NightimeWaitFlag' which has no code or conditions. The first program is: If Control 'KPL-B' is switched On And Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' is False Then Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Then Path) Wait 5 seconds Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path) Else - No actions - and the second program is: If Control 'KPL-B' is switched On And Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' is True Then Set Scene 'NightTimeKitchen' On Set Scene 'NightTimeBedroom' On Run Program 'NightimeWaitFlag' (Else Path) Else - No actions - EDIT: Never mind. That won't work, because the minute you set the NightimeWaitFlag program to true (run the Then branch), the first program will re-enter and cancel the Wait. Dammit, the ISY programming model is so frustrating! What should be simple is overly complex, all for the want of a simple flag to indicate trigger conditions versus plain status conditions! But I've been banging this drum for almost a year now, and it is falling on deaf ears, I am afraid.

The question is: what constitutes a switch as far as the inspector is concerned? An Insteon controller that controls a device installed in the ceiling box? Maybe. But seeing how inspection of new construction is done before the final electrical punch, the inspector may never see the insteon switch or the insteon dimmer device installed in the box. She may only see a ceiling box with a circuit running directly to the breaker box with no switch! Is she going to let that pass? In my experience, the answer is no. Moot point anyway for the OP, the electrical is done. I just would not recommend anyone else wiring their house this way for the sake of Insteon control.

As far as code requirements, code consists of some of both. However, it must be wired in a conventional way. For example, where I live, you can't have an unswitched ceiling box, even if you want to put up a fan with a pull chain. Stupid? Yes. But code is crazy like that. It probably has something to do with their measure of habitability of the house. Of course, the inspector may never ensure function of a switch for the ceiling fan, so you just have to wire through a junction box on the wall. That said, I think getting a variance is as easy as explaining the unique requirements of your installation (as long as the physical wiring is to code).

This could have been accomplished even with a convential house wiring scheme. What's more, it would make you house resellable. What you have now is going to cause you problems when you go to sell. I don't know where you are, but down here in the South, your scheme would not have been up to code, and you would have to get a variance of some kind.