blueman2

Yup, you are right, Teken. I just wanted to show empathy for Michel on this one. If it is not in the documentation, it is damn hard for UDI to be constantly searching for undocumented features to support. It is hard enough just supporting the ones that are documented. But I bet if there is a key feature that everyone here really wants, and even if that feature is undocumented, that UDI will eventually support that feature. We just cannot count on that to happen very often I think.

Boy, is this ever true. My last encounter with Smartlabs was when they decided to stop supporting load sensing in their lamplinc 2s for a period of time randomly. Old versions of lamplinc 2 dimmers would sense when you turn on a lamp and would power on the lamplinc dimmer. So I bought 5 of them. Only to find out they stopped supporting sense on their lamplinc 2 dimmers without any notice, change in documentation, or change in revision number. I spent a week trying to contact them and they finally returned my email saying they decided to drop the feature and would not say why. They said it might return at some point, but would not say when or how anyone will know. I think the feature did return at a later time. So apparently we cannot count on Smartlabs documenting features, whether they exist or whether they have been added or removed. Given this, I am amazed at how well UDI does in supporting all these many devices that have such poor revision control.

Insteon, while overall quite good in quality and getting better all the time, did have a few duds in terms of products. The KeyPadLincs of the 2010-2011 timeframe have had a significant failure rates based on my own experience (5 of 7 failures) and from what I read in forums in general. Also, the PLMs produced in this same timeframe seemed to have a high failure rate. In both cases, it appears to be due to bad quality capacitors. Outside of those 2 areas, I would rate Insteon quality as superb. And even with the rather high failure rate I had with KPLs, I would not hesitate buying Insteon again for another home. But, I would probably invest in a good whole home surge protector. And I like Teken's approach of keeping a few areas with good old fashioned standard switches for 'just in case' situations. I guess I watched too much Battlestar Galactica.

I looked into this a year ago and decided it was not worth dimming. It was going to be way too expensive and complicated. So I just have a relay switchlinc controlling each transformer. Another piece of advice: go LED for all your lights. This has many benefits, including being able to use much lower watt transformers. You can buy regular 12V system, then replace the bulbs with ones from eBay. It was about 1/2 the price doing it that way. For some reason, if you buy lights with LED bulbs already in them, they double the price of the entire set. Crazy.

I would just go to eBay and search for 10uf low esr capacitor. Most will be 50V or more, but voltage does not matter as long as it is higher than you need. You should be able to get 5 for $4 or less. I know you only need 1, but it will probably be cheaper than Mouser or Digikey. Here is a good USA source of quality caps: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Panasonic-FC-Low-ESR-10uf-50V-105C-5x11-mm-USA-seller-/221617353683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33996c73d3

Duh!!! I bet you are right. It seemed odd to me for a non-relay dimmer to make any clicking noise. It HAD to be coming from the piezo speaker. Good catch.

Good point, Teken. I do see a lot of posts in forums related to Insteon where people have 2011 era KPLs that have failed with buzzing, clicking and load turning on/off symptoms. All 5 of my failures are of this type. And all 5 were fixed with this capacitor replacement. So at least we appear to have a fix for this one failure mode. If, however, the KPL was damaged due to shorted load which might kills the triac (see arw01's post above) then this will not help. Worst case, if you are having these symptoms, give the cap replacement a try. Cheap and relatively easy if you have soldering skills. Thanks again for the help and support in getting this fixed. Especially to Brian, for the lead on the green capacitor.

Brian H, I will take apart one of the KPLs and take a picture of all the chips. Dumb of me not to do that before. In any case, I guess I can go with low ESR caps by default, since there is not downside (that I know of) other than higher cost. But then, this is the first time I have ever been made aware of low ESR quality criteria for capacitors. It has been decades since my EE classes, but a quick wiki read on the subject brings it all back. I want it to go away again

Brian H and Teken, you da' MAN, er, MEN!!! It was the green capacitor!!!!! I did not have an exact replacement (it is a 10uF 16V), but I did have a 22uF 35V capacitor laying around and replaced the green one. Put it back together and BINGO!!!! It works!!! Now, even better news. I did the repair on another switch WITHOUT taking the entire switch apart. Taking it totally apart (removing the circuit board to get to the bottom side) is a problem because you have to drill out the TRIAC and putting that back on is a pain. So it would be best to not have to access the back (solder) side of the board. Here is the procedure: Remove the 4 screws that hold the clear plastic jacket on. They are on the 4 corners on the front of the switch. Remove the clear plastic jacket. Pull the White,Black,Red wires out or give enough slack to access the green capacitor. If you can, avoid breaking the small red and black wires to the piezo speaker that is glued to the inside of the clear plastic shell. I just cut my speaker wires off since I do not care about the sound. Find the 10uF 16V green capacitor using the picture in post #12 above. It might not be green. But it should be the only 16V 10uF cap. It should also be labled C8 on the circuit board. Note and write down which side is + and -. There should be a + on the circuit board, but if not, WRITE IT DOWN so you know polarity. To remove the capacitor, just rock the green capacitor back and forth until you eventually stress the wires so much they break. Do it gently at first and it will take anywhere from 10 to 50 pushes back and forth to finally break off the leads. You might also want to try a clockwise-counterclockwise twisting motion back and forth to break the leads. If one of the leads is sticking out from the pad, cut it off level as you can with the circuit board. Now, use your soldering iron to put a bead of solder on each pad where the capacitor was. Cut the leads on the new capacitor to be short (about 1/4 inch) and place a small bead of solder on the tip of each wire on the cap. Then place the capacitor at an angle so that you can solder it on. MAKE SURE TO OBSERVE POLARITY. I forgot to take a picture while my switch was apart, but here is one from the outside of the switch. So guys, we now have a method to fix all of those broken KPLs!!!!! Brian H recommends using Low ESR capacitor with 105 degree rating. These should last longer. Lots of them on eBay. Don't worry about the voltage rating, so long as it is above 16V. 50V will work just fine, for example.

Well, well. I did end up doing a basic test of all the caps without removing them. I used my trusty Fluke on resistance setting to charge them up, then used voltage setting to see if I got any residual voltage from them. All gave residual voltage except the green one. I think I will remove it and see if I can find a spare somewhere in my workshop. Otherwise, off to Radio Shack. Different view of caps it that helps.

Here is a detail on the crystal after I scraped the burned glue off of it. Yes, definitely a crystal at 5.5296 mHz. I did check the 2 inductors, and they both tested OK at 2.5 ohms. Large capacitor seemed to test OK, but hard to be sure without removing it. I do not have the equipment to check the crystal, unfortunately.

Cannot make out the markings on the silver object, but yes, it is connected directly to the largest IC so probably is a crystal. Good call. Odd that it appears to have been rather hot based on some of the scorching of the glue holding it down.

Here is the main board. No obviously blown caps, but the 3rd component from the left (back row) shows some corrosion. It is a 1mH inductor (not a cap, though it looks just like one). Also, the long silver component on the left, just to the left of the green ferrite ring where the red load wire exits the board, appears to have overheated. On the right front edge of the board, you can see the triac that was riveted to the side of the aluminum case.

5 have failed in 3 year period. About 2 per year. Each time, it has been either after a brown/blackout or after I have restored power to a circuit after working on it. So I am guessing there is some sort of power spike causing these failures. BTW, I have disassembled one KPL already. It is a rather complicated process to take one apart, including the need to drill out a rivet holding the triac power controller to the case (it is riveted there to allow heat transfer). The main board has 5 caps, one main power resistor and what appears to be a small reed type switch which is probably the source of the clicking sound we hear when these fail. I will let you know as I learn more.

Edit: read to post #13 for details on the successful repair method Out of 7 KPL's I purchased in 2011, 5 have failed with the famous clicking, buzzing, turning load on and off symptom. With the price of these being $75 or more, I would love to be able to somehow repair these devices rather than throw them away. I am considering taking a few apart and trying to replace capacitors, as that is the most common item to fail on electronics. I do know that if I try long enough doing repeated 'restore' commands, I can sometimes get a few to respond and work temporarily - until power is removed and restored, at which point they go into the clicking and buzzing and cycling state. So that leads me to believe that the eprom and digital section is still intact, leading be back to the capacitor idea. So, has anyone else tried this? Any pointers? Otherwise, I will just start replacing caps and see what happens.

BTW, I have many of my KPLs doing exactly this. One in my bedroom warns me if any lights inside or outside the house are left on. I can then just press one of the buttons (one for inside, one for outside lights) and turn all lights off as needed. Saves electricity and saves walking around the house to see what lights someone left on.

To clarify the above, create a scene with ONLY the KPL Key in it. Nothing else. Put that scene (with just the KPL Key) into the Then and IF statements above. Separately, you can have a scene with the KPL Key as a controller along with controlled devices as responders. And, as said above, make the KPL Key 'Non-Toggle Off' under options.

Thumbs up. Actually, we are on the winning team. Insteon today is the best when you consider also the support by ISY/UD. So while it is fun to debate the future, I am confident we have installed the right system for today. No debate there (from me anyway).

I typically agree with you, but I have to disagree on this one. This is not a problem. It is a huge asset. Google knows the value of trying new ideas and "failing fast". Being willing to kill an idea that is not working out is critical to success in a fast moving industry. It frees up resources to look at other new ideas. As for long term thinking, I think Google is one of the world leaders in this area. And "Internet of Things" is one of their key long term concepts. That is not to say Home Automation will end up being a key element, but my guess is that it will be. But I am probably going off topic here!

By the way, does anyone know the story behind the ICON brand? Was that a wholly owned company by INSTEON, or was this an example of licensing the INSTEON technology to another company? At least with ICON, we had some options for lower cost switches and devices. In the end, it comes down to competition. Even a sole-source provider can win if they have a much better product than the competition (as was pointed out with Apple). But with Google making a BIG play in this space for the "Internet of Everything", I really do not see Insteon being a long term player. Hey, maybe Google/Nest needs to buy Insteon and UDI? In any case, I also agree that there is no current better alternative for me. I continue to use INSTEON and will for the foreseeable future. It works, and it has the best controller on the market supporting it (ISY). I am also a realist and believe INSTEON will fall by the wayside within a decade. And I am OK with that. My devices and ISY will still be working and serving me well.

I think Insteon is dead within 5-8 years. Simply because they are sole-source provider and do not license to anyone else. This makes them too expensive and slow to respond to trends Look how long it has been and still no good availability of Insteon door locks!!!! I predict Z-wave will be the winner, unless Google decides to create another standard - which is quite possible. That said, I think aside from the sole-source issue, Insteon has been a great company.

They were apparently installed using double sticky foam tape. Most of the tape was removed (some residue left), but all the stickers on the back must have come off with the tape. At least, that is my guess. Thanks again!

WOW! Yes, that worked great! I never knew you could read the link table of a device that was not programmed by ISY. That is totally cool. Thanks!

I purchased a couple 2421 wireless triggerlincs from eBay used. Problem is that the address stickers are missing on both units. Since ISY does not support auto discovery for these devices, I am unable to link them. I can manually link them to a switch (so I know they work), but how do I link them with ISY without an address? Is there some way to sniff communications between the 2421 and a linked switch to see what the address is?

I went a different route for button labels and I am VERY happy with them. I just take off the existing buttons, sand off the existing labels with 1500 grit sand paper until they are blank white. The printing on the buttons is very shallow so it takes just seconds to remove the old label. I then print whatever label I want onto Avery clear address labels. I also print a box just a smidgen larger than the key to help me place the label on squarely and evenly. I place the labels on the keys, and then cover with another blank clear label in order to provide protection for the ink. I then use a pair of scissors to trim the excess label so that it is flush with the side of the key. The result is much more pleasing than the clear buttons. The clear buttons with inserts behind them just look tacky. Very low WAF. The custom labeled standard keys transmit the backlight much better and look for finished and professional. And this is MUCH cheaper and more flexible than buying the custom keys. The nice thing is that I can also use icons and graphics. For example, I use a fan icon I found on the internet for my fans. I also use Left Arrow for left side house lights, etc. You can be very creative. I have used this for 2 years now and never had any issues with the labels coming off or deteriorating.