blueman2

I have about 20 devices that I linked to my ISY, but then disabled and put in a drawer. These are backups and future use devices - I like them to show up in the ISY screen so that I know what I have as spares. I just did a PLM replacement and went through the Wiki steps. But I did not see any procedure for disabled devices. Since they have not been written to, I am guessing ISY still has the old / stale links for the old PLM, right? What is the best practice for updating all these devices? Do I need to connected them one by one and do a restore PLM each time?

OK, well I did go ahead and order a new PLM from Smarthome. In the mean time, I am seeing lots of "could not communicate with xxxx" every time I log into my ISY. I can query the device and it does respond, but clearly I am having either PLM issues or network issues. If the latter (network), what could be causing this?? I did just add the Z-wave module to my ISY and added several Z-wave devices, but that should not cause this issue should it?

So the PLM that is to be sold by UDI is just a regular PLM with better caps, or is it one with different features and capabilities? If the latter, I might wait to get a new one and get it from UDI.

I have been having issues with KPL LEDs that are controlled by ISY programs not always being in the correct state. I tried replacing the KPLs with no improvement. Also, I am starting to notice that light being controlled by my ISY (through programs) are not turning on or off as reliably as I am used to. Could this be a symptom of a failing PLM? I was not sure what their failure modes are. Do they fail DEAD (no lights on the unit, no nothing), or can they also fail with intermittent communication?? Secondly, I was going to buy a new PLM, but I understand that UDI is creating their own which sounds interesting. Any idea on release date? If they are doing their own and it provides features that are useful, I might just try re-cap'ing my existing PLM and wait rather than buying a second 2413S. Advice?

Thanks for the answer, MWareman and LeeG. Makes sense. So any Scene command coming from the PLM itself is not ACKed or retried. Good to know. That actually explains a lot. My issue is that there is one area of my house that seems to have a lot of noise in the line. I have put a filterlinc on some nearby transformers, and put a Dual Band device right next to the KPL (non-DB) hoping that the DualBand device would give clean communication to the KPL. But apparently not. Odd thing is that my PLM (2413S Dual Band) is just about 20 feet away from the DualBand switch located right next to the KPL (non-DualBand). I guess my wireline is so noisy that even with the DB switch right next to the KPL, the noise is still drowning out the signal. Time to replace it with a DB KPL I guess.

I know that Insteon has the ability to verify receipt of a command and retry if not received. But do programs do that same? I ask because I have a program the turns on/off various KPL LEDs. Often, I find that my LEDs are not consistent: one KPL's LED will be on, while another will be off, when both are in the same Scene that is being controlled by a program. I almost never have this happen when a scene is being controlled by an Insteon device. Only when controlled by a program. Any ideas?

For me, it was all about the number of nodes. I exceeded the limit on standard version in my home. Now that I got the pro version, I have decided I should have purchased it before anyway. I like the ability to do lots of changes and then batch update my devices. Much more efficient.

I empathize with you on this one. I either have or would like to have all of the components you mention. Here is what I have learned so far: 1) I have gone entirely with wired motion detectors, wired into my ELK. I then access their states and run programs based on MDs in ISY because I like the ISY programming language MUCH better than the ELK's. This is the most cost efficient, stable mode of operating IMHO. 2) I have been looking (without success) to find a whole home security DVR system that will provide dry contact relay outputs for things like alarming, motion, etc, so that my ELK and ISY can respond to these inputs. But I have yet to find any video security system that provides either dry contact or 5V/12V output triggering. Maybe something could be done via HTTP talking to ISY, but I am not sure anyone has been successful there either. 3) My brother has this same issue. Surprisingly, we just installed a dual band device and it worked. Not sure if it is using RF or Electrical wires, but it works. And yes, this is probably the ONE area where using an Insteon MD will be required. 4) ELK: all of your door/window sensors should be hard wired. All motion detectors should be hard wired to ELK. All smoke detectors hardwared into ELK. I have my garage door sense and control on my ELK (the Insteon ioLinc solution for garage doors is a kludge). Insteon: For switches, plugs, etc. I do not use motion detectors on ISY unless I have no choice (e.g. your barn) Z-wave: Door Locks, Pool Controller (basically, devices that I wish had good support by Insteon but do not) 5) Other thoughts: I am doing EXACTLY the same setup for iTunes. I like having a dedicated server running iTunes 24x7, and use Remote apps (there is one for Android and IOS) to play my library. And yes, people can still use airplay from their device if they want their own music. Overall, I say good luck with this. Looking forward to what others say. particularly around integrating home video security systems into ELK/ISY. This has been a major issue that needs resolving.

Ah, now I see where the 344 number came from. So that method does not help me. So as far as my original question, is there any way to do that math aside from manually counting each node and scene? Doable, but since this is an important licensing issue, I thought there might be a more simple way to see how close I am to needed to upgrade to Pro version.

I thought the 256 limit was for total of scenes AND device nodes. Or is it scenes OR device nodes?

Thanks. That shows 344 items. So I am already over the limit for non-pro version? I did a manual count of all nodes (devices and scenes, including for example all 8 buttons on a KPL) and came up with closer to 210. Something seems off, at least in terms of what ISY counts as devices/scenes. ??

I know I can generate a topology report, which lists every node and every program, but is there an easier way than to manually count each node line by line? I have about 80 devices and if you count each node under each device (e.g. 8 for a KPL), and add all the scenes, I am worried I might be running up against the 256 limit (for non-pro version).

Yes, I have several 4 button KPLs. They have a very high WAF due to the more simple look and layout. My wife hates the 8 button and even the 6 button. But 4? Loves it. I just put AB in one scene, CD in 2nd scene, EF in 3rd and GH in a 4th.

Yup, you are right, Teken. I just wanted to show empathy for Michel on this one. If it is not in the documentation, it is damn hard for UDI to be constantly searching for undocumented features to support. It is hard enough just supporting the ones that are documented. But I bet if there is a key feature that everyone here really wants, and even if that feature is undocumented, that UDI will eventually support that feature. We just cannot count on that to happen very often I think.

Boy, is this ever true. My last encounter with Smartlabs was when they decided to stop supporting load sensing in their lamplinc 2s for a period of time randomly. Old versions of lamplinc 2 dimmers would sense when you turn on a lamp and would power on the lamplinc dimmer. So I bought 5 of them. Only to find out they stopped supporting sense on their lamplinc 2 dimmers without any notice, change in documentation, or change in revision number. I spent a week trying to contact them and they finally returned my email saying they decided to drop the feature and would not say why. They said it might return at some point, but would not say when or how anyone will know. I think the feature did return at a later time. So apparently we cannot count on Smartlabs documenting features, whether they exist or whether they have been added or removed. Given this, I am amazed at how well UDI does in supporting all these many devices that have such poor revision control.

Insteon, while overall quite good in quality and getting better all the time, did have a few duds in terms of products. The KeyPadLincs of the 2010-2011 timeframe have had a significant failure rates based on my own experience (5 of 7 failures) and from what I read in forums in general. Also, the PLMs produced in this same timeframe seemed to have a high failure rate. In both cases, it appears to be due to bad quality capacitors. Outside of those 2 areas, I would rate Insteon quality as superb. And even with the rather high failure rate I had with KPLs, I would not hesitate buying Insteon again for another home. But, I would probably invest in a good whole home surge protector. And I like Teken's approach of keeping a few areas with good old fashioned standard switches for 'just in case' situations. I guess I watched too much Battlestar Galactica.

I looked into this a year ago and decided it was not worth dimming. It was going to be way too expensive and complicated. So I just have a relay switchlinc controlling each transformer. Another piece of advice: go LED for all your lights. This has many benefits, including being able to use much lower watt transformers. You can buy regular 12V system, then replace the bulbs with ones from eBay. It was about 1/2 the price doing it that way. For some reason, if you buy lights with LED bulbs already in them, they double the price of the entire set. Crazy.

I would just go to eBay and search for 10uf low esr capacitor. Most will be 50V or more, but voltage does not matter as long as it is higher than you need. You should be able to get 5 for $4 or less. I know you only need 1, but it will probably be cheaper than Mouser or Digikey. Here is a good USA source of quality caps: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Panasonic-FC-Low-ESR-10uf-50V-105C-5x11-mm-USA-seller-/221617353683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33996c73d3

Duh!!! I bet you are right. It seemed odd to me for a non-relay dimmer to make any clicking noise. It HAD to be coming from the piezo speaker. Good catch.

Good point, Teken. I do see a lot of posts in forums related to Insteon where people have 2011 era KPLs that have failed with buzzing, clicking and load turning on/off symptoms. All 5 of my failures are of this type. And all 5 were fixed with this capacitor replacement. So at least we appear to have a fix for this one failure mode. If, however, the KPL was damaged due to shorted load which might kills the triac (see arw01's post above) then this will not help. Worst case, if you are having these symptoms, give the cap replacement a try. Cheap and relatively easy if you have soldering skills. Thanks again for the help and support in getting this fixed. Especially to Brian, for the lead on the green capacitor.

Brian H, I will take apart one of the KPLs and take a picture of all the chips. Dumb of me not to do that before. In any case, I guess I can go with low ESR caps by default, since there is not downside (that I know of) other than higher cost. But then, this is the first time I have ever been made aware of low ESR quality criteria for capacitors. It has been decades since my EE classes, but a quick wiki read on the subject brings it all back. I want it to go away again

Brian H and Teken, you da' MAN, er, MEN!!! It was the green capacitor!!!!! I did not have an exact replacement (it is a 10uF 16V), but I did have a 22uF 35V capacitor laying around and replaced the green one. Put it back together and BINGO!!!! It works!!! Now, even better news. I did the repair on another switch WITHOUT taking the entire switch apart. Taking it totally apart (removing the circuit board to get to the bottom side) is a problem because you have to drill out the TRIAC and putting that back on is a pain. So it would be best to not have to access the back (solder) side of the board. Here is the procedure: Remove the 4 screws that hold the clear plastic jacket on. They are on the 4 corners on the front of the switch. Remove the clear plastic jacket. Pull the White,Black,Red wires out or give enough slack to access the green capacitor. If you can, avoid breaking the small red and black wires to the piezo speaker that is glued to the inside of the clear plastic shell. I just cut my speaker wires off since I do not care about the sound. Find the 10uF 16V green capacitor using the picture in post #12 above. It might not be green. But it should be the only 16V 10uF cap. It should also be labled C8 on the circuit board. Note and write down which side is + and -. There should be a + on the circuit board, but if not, WRITE IT DOWN so you know polarity. To remove the capacitor, just rock the green capacitor back and forth until you eventually stress the wires so much they break. Do it gently at first and it will take anywhere from 10 to 50 pushes back and forth to finally break off the leads. You might also want to try a clockwise-counterclockwise twisting motion back and forth to break the leads. If one of the leads is sticking out from the pad, cut it off level as you can with the circuit board. Now, use your soldering iron to put a bead of solder on each pad where the capacitor was. Cut the leads on the new capacitor to be short (about 1/4 inch) and place a small bead of solder on the tip of each wire on the cap. Then place the capacitor at an angle so that you can solder it on. MAKE SURE TO OBSERVE POLARITY. I forgot to take a picture while my switch was apart, but here is one from the outside of the switch. So guys, we now have a method to fix all of those broken KPLs!!!!! Brian H recommends using Low ESR capacitor with 105 degree rating. These should last longer. Lots of them on eBay. Don't worry about the voltage rating, so long as it is above 16V. 50V will work just fine, for example.

Well, well. I did end up doing a basic test of all the caps without removing them. I used my trusty Fluke on resistance setting to charge them up, then used voltage setting to see if I got any residual voltage from them. All gave residual voltage except the green one. I think I will remove it and see if I can find a spare somewhere in my workshop. Otherwise, off to Radio Shack. Different view of caps it that helps.

Here is a detail on the crystal after I scraped the burned glue off of it. Yes, definitely a crystal at 5.5296 mHz. I did check the 2 inductors, and they both tested OK at 2.5 ohms. Large capacitor seemed to test OK, but hard to be sure without removing it. I do not have the equipment to check the crystal, unfortunately.

Cannot make out the markings on the silver object, but yes, it is connected directly to the largest IC so probably is a crystal. Good call. Odd that it appears to have been rather hot based on some of the scorching of the glue holding it down.