ccclapp

Hi I am testing zooz Zen72 smart dimmer. This is designed to control scenes/devices via 2, 3, 4, 5, up/down presses. I have set zwave parameter #13 to 1 per... https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/538-zen72-dimmer-switch-700-advanced-settings/#:~:text=Parameter 13%3A Enable or disable,for quick double tap triggers. However in eisy I do not see these are triggers in programs, not as possible controllers in scenes. eisy simply brings in the dimmer as a single device/node/entity Does isy not support this functionality? Thanks

Thanks. This is working for some programs but not for others. There is no apparent reason, all are simple working programs.

Ok, this is strange, some programs do copy via r-click->copy. But some dont???

Hi Sorry for my basic question but I have searched wiki and forum and can not remember how to copy/duplicate a program. I just want to duplicate an existing program so I can make some edits for testing. I see right-click -> copy but no paste and nothing happens when I just do copy. I am on latest firmware on an eisy after migrating from 994 Thanks

Yes it was closed by the developer so I reposted in the general forums with a little modification, here.. . https://community.home-assistant.io/t/scenes-groups-associations-store-natively-in-device-please/592935

HI Thanks Darn,I was hoping to avoid this, as many scenes x many brightness levels = too many I regularly dim/brighten a given scene from a KP button and its not really time or event specific to automate. Thanks for the clarification

Hi @brians and @shbatm Thanks for your clear and thorough replies. That is helpful. I have and will continue to be a loyal and long-term isy user (just got my eisy w zmatter :-). I am expanding/revamping my overall automation/control setup significantly and will also incorporate HA, which is new to me. As such I am trying to understand the subtilties of protocol options: Insteon, Z-Wave and Zigbee, and the particulars and interactions of multiple hubs (ISY/HA). You and this string are helping clarify both. Here are a few quick follow-ups: A basic question that is still not clear: Can isy insteon scenes be dimmed or their brightness specified (of the scene itself, as I know each device level is set in the scene config) in HA, or via Alexa/Google Assistant, or even within ISY? I often dim/brighten larger lighting scenes via the KP button, but dont know if and where is can be done virtually. Above @Michel Kohanim confirmed that isy does write natively to z-wave devices in a scene (Associations as @shbatm clarified) - great! But Michel didnt say if, like with Insteon, for z-wave isy will send a single command to control a zwave scene (Multicast per shbatm). Does ISY do this for zwaye or does it send separate commands for each zw device in a zw scene? If "yes" to the above, getting even more granular: in isy with a scene with BOTH insteon and zw devices, does isy now send separate commands to ALL devices in the scene, or just two, one to each protocol. eg: 1 scene w 4 insteon devices and 5 zwave devices. Is Turn On 1, 2, or 9 commands? For Zigbee, (which is 1 week old on ISY so likely not with 100% capabilities yet) shbatm explains it has similar "direct Binding" and "Group" capabilities, like insteon multi-device links and scenes and zw direct Associations and Multicast. (But Michel also said for Zigbee "scenes" the question was more complicated??). So, all three protocols seem to have similar capabilities in terms of multi-device native links/associations/bindings between same protocol devices, AND single message commands to activate a single protocol scene/group/milticast. Thus my question is: are the three protocols reasonably in the same playing field in these regards (acknowledging differences in communication specifics/speed/distance etc AND assuming the "links" and "scenes" are made by a native controller eg ISY/Zigbee2MGTT/ZWaveJS UI etc, (ie not in HA directly))? Or, are there significant pros/cons of one over another in this regard (meaning, direct "pairings for communication" AND Single network commands addressing multiple devices simultaneously" as @shbatm nicely labels these)? Does HA have more ability to dim or specify brightness level of "scenes" from external hubs/controllers with ZW or zigbee, than is does with isy insteon? Or can it not specify brightness of externally created "scenes" of any protocol? Thanks and sorry to dive deeper into the weeds of this topic's question.

Hi Quick question: Are scenes dimmable or can you specify the brightness level of scenes on the Amazon or Google assistant integrations Thanks

I just connected my 1st zigbee test device. Its a "Third Reality" "Smart Plug GEN2" www.3reality.com, bought on aamazon for about $10 (4pack for $38) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BPY5D1KC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1 THIRDREALITY ZigBee Smart Plug 4 Pack with Real-time Energy Monitoring,15A Outlet, Zigbee Repeater,ETL Certified,ZigBee Hub Required,Work with Home Assistant,Compatible Echo Devices and SmartThings It was very quickly found/added to eisy. It has a single device field listed and functioning as an on/off switch. It is supposed to report poser/energy use, but does not on eisy. I have not tried it elsewhere. Thanks

Thank you Michel. That's great to know. 2 quick follow-ups, if I may: In addition to the benifit of writing to zwave device, does isy-> zwave also send a single Scene/"Association" command, like Insteon, or are commands sent to each zwave device in an association, e.g turn on scene at 60%? Is isy(eisy) unique in this, or do some other hubs/controllers do this too (just asking) Thanks for taking such good care of us all!

HI This may be an old thread, but it is the best discussion of: How isy vs HA handle scenes That isy does and HA does not natively write to devices resulting in: a. eg for a 10 device scene, a single "turn on scene" command, vs 10 separate per device commands AND b. enabeling the scene to function from a controlling e.g. switch, even if the plm/hub is off line. That even though this isy behavior (natively writing to devices) is far superior than how HA handles Insteon scenes, there are issues integrating the isy devices with HA...and some fairly complicated workarounds. Because of this I reactivated this thread so anyone else considering isy/HA for insteon would benifit from this knowledge. However, I mistakenly thought by posting these points for the developer of HA to see we might get some current thinking from him. Instead he blocked the question (which admittedly was not posted where it should have been, but was intended to get his eyeballs. In any event, I do have these above related questions and would welcome any insights: Thanks!

Sorry for another follow-up post.. My post to the HA Github discussion was closed by ../Frenck without addressing the question I therefore made a similar post in the general forum here https://community.home-assistant.io/t/scenes-groups-associations-store-natively-in-device/592910?u=ccclapp if anyone cares

Im adding a 2nd post here on topic: 1. As stated in this thread, isy/IoX writes scene and other data natively to Insteon devices. Also stated, that Zigbee Groups and Z-Wave Associations can be similarly natively written to devices. My question is: Does ISY/eisy do this with those protocols, or only with Insteon. 2. And: if written natively (by ISY or otherwise) does that help even the playing field between insteon/z-waye/zigbee for lighting (scenes etc)? (not meaning to open a big discussion about pros/cons of each here) Thanks

Hi This is a great discussion on a complicated topic without a great resolution. Assuming the info in this thread is still valid I created a new Discussion summarizing this in the HA Architecture github, here.. https://github.com/home-assistant/architecture/discussions/946 Since that is not really a general discussion forum, I recommend we wait to see how HA developers etc reply. Im posting here so you can also be informed if they do. As to context: I've been a long-term ISY-only user. I have many many lights (switches) with many scenes. I've just completed a significant home renovation, so have had isy offline for about a year and am now researching what direction to go in moving forward. It seems for lighting Insteon/ISY may be best. But for the overall front-end and much broader device control HA will likely be my primary front end. Ive similarly been trying to evaluate Insteon vs Z-wave vs Zigbee for lighting and other purposes (energy monitoring, sensors etc) and may stay Insteon for ligating and different for the rest. Here again we get to the question of what native controller/hub for each protocol: ISY, HA, Other and then which to link through which....BUT all of this will likely be a separate thread (as its somewhat off-topic here), here and at HA... ...however, one quick more related question: Am I correct there is decent ISY integration in HA, but not an equally good integration to being all HA devices into ISY/eisy if one is considering isy as the primary front end? Thanks again for the great info in the discussion above. I wish there was a good and simple answer

Hi , apologize in advance if this is an obvious question I should know the answer to... but I don't I just received my eisy and the z matter stick (I was previously on an ISY). I had assumed they're already was zigbee broad support as I thought that's what that stick was for. am I mistaken and only just now we starting to get zigby support? a simple clarification would be helpful Thanks