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I see this as more of an issue than Michel's comments ... I thought the ISY kept tabs on the network and updates it's record of what state each device is in based on network traffic. Hrm. Although ... I guess if the ISY hears "Device A Brighten" it doesn't know just how bright "brighten" is without querying it afterwards. Okay, so capturing an accurate "snapshot" (quickly!) IS a problem. Then, when you want to "restore" the settings to the snapshot levels, the devices are not in a scene or group (as you were saying, Mark), so they would have to be changed one-at-a-time, which isn't very classy. Not to be a pessimist, but this (cool feature) has some pretty big hurdles.

and yes, i'm accessing through "My Network Places"

Hello! I've installed 2.9.10 and when I login and Help | About, It confirms the correct version. However, nothing is different from 2.9.9 ... For example, all programs still have if/then/finally. I tried rebooting and reinstalling, but neither helped. Any ideas? thanks! ~shawn

You're right Mark; I didn't even notice/remember that the wallwart's were blue in the MyLighting folder ... even more confusing!

I get the red for controllers, that makes sense. But ... If the difference between the node in MyLighting and the same node in a scene is that "it's a responder" in a scene (so it's blue) and not a responder in MyLighting (so it's purple), then I think that by clicking that blue responder node, it should show you the level/rate sliders that it's responding to (the scene, not the local settings) The problem with that, is that it's kindof confusing since you can have OTHER controllers in the scene as well (which have their own sliders). That's why I thought of just showing ALL of the sliders the node responds to (plus the local settings), like the example in my previous post.

except ... Why are the two If statements necessary? If it is switched On, doesn't that inherently mean it is NOT switched Off? Folder Conditions for 'Away' Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run. If Control 'Keypad A' is switched On And Control 'Keypad A' is not switched Off Then Allow the programs in this folder to run.

You're right! Thanks for explanation! ... crystal clear! ~shawn

Is there a reason that the nodes are colored differently in the MyLighting tree folder than in a Scene folder? This leads me to believe that they're "different", but when I click either one, all of the "stuff" on the right side is the same. Maybe when you click on a node, the right side displays the level/rate sliders for it's local settings, PLUS each controller it's managed by. For example, when clicking a node (device) the sliders area could look like: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Device Settings ... ...in Response to Local Device interaction: ------ On Level 0 20 40 60 80 100 --------- Ramp Rate 0.1s 19s 30s 1m 4m 9m ...in Response to controller: ------ On Level 0 20 40 60 80 100 --------- Ramp Rate 0.1s 19s 30s 1m 4m 9m ...in Response to controller: ------ On Level 0 20 40 60 80 100 --------- Ramp Rate 0.1s 19s 30s 1m 4m 9m ... (repeat for as many controllers as applicable) ... ...in Response to ISY Scene : ------ On Level 0 20 40 60 80 100 --------- Ramp Rate 0.1s 19s 30s 1m 4m 9m -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another possibility is to make the colors the same, and add a title to the level/rate sliders to indicate they adjust the local values.

Do we differentiate between when a KPL button was pressed, and just testing whether the button status is on/off by the order of the 'If' statements? For example, I want to run an "all off" scene when my "Away" button is pressed on. Later, at sunset, I want to turn on another scene IF the away button is ON. Program: Start Away Mode If Control 'KPL@Office - Away' is On //same as below Then Set Scene 'All Off' Off Finally - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Program: Welcome Home If Time is Sunset And Control 'KPL@Office - Away' is On //same as above Then Set Scene 'Welcome Home Evening' On Finally - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Does the ORDER of the if statements determine what triggers the program to fire? So the first program will look for the Away button to be pressed. The second program will wait for Sunset ... at sunset, it will then move to the next condition and check the status of the Away button and continue (or not). I understand that I can't control the status of a KPL button directly; the workaround is to place the button into a scene, and turn that scene on or off. I guess I'm confused as to what exactly the KPL limitation is when making programs, and why we can't use both status and control events. Thanks!

I agree with MikeB ... I'm not familiar with the details of X10, but I assume that the final number correlates to the command (3=ON, 11=OFF) if this is the case, MikeB's "connects" the final 3 with it's definition better. 'A.1.3 - On' this makes it seem like A.1.3 is a device that then sent an On command. Really (i think) it's A.1 that sent a 3 command, with 3 defined as "On". Taking it further, the 3 is not of use to me personally, so I'd be fine with 'A.1(On)' 'A.1(Off)' etc .. just my $.02 And of course, if my initial assumption isn't correct, ignore this completely.

But isn't that what your vacation button program does? It checks the "status" (via control) of the button to determine whether the folder can run or not. Actually the program works without the time part. I tested by running the program manually. It looks like the time part at the beginning isn't triggering the program to fire.

Any idea why the below program doesn't fire? The Away button is On, I even queried from ISY to make sure ISY knows about it. I change the time in the program to a minute from now, and watch .... but nothing happens. If Time is 3:39:00PM And Control 'KPL@Office - Away' is On Then Set 'Cabana @ Back Office' On Finally - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') How do I go about troubleshooting this? Thanks!

I don't know if this is the best way to do it, but I created a scene and add the KPL "Away" button to it as a responder, I can now turn that scene on/off using ISY Programs, thereby turning on/off the KPL button/backlight.

From Page 18 of the Switchlinc Manual (http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2476d.pdf) I'm just saying that I think the sliders should be labeled EVERYWHERE; in the scene list (when ISY is the controller), in the controller list, and in the node (local level) list, with the term "Local" being reserved for when the slider is actually adjusting the Local level/rate of a device. I think the solution is to define the context of the slider screen. You're either adjusting values for LOCAL or a CONTROLLER. There is only ONE local, but can be MULTIPLE controllers. So the screen should say something like Context: where is a node name (like a KPL button) OR "ISY" where the controller is the ISY. Except that "Context" is rather abstract. Probably best to just spell it out: "These sliders adjust On Levels and Ramp rates when controlled by " I see where you mean "local to the ISY" but The ISY does not have a "Local" level/rate. It does not turn on, so Local should not describe the ISY. am I making sense? Maybe I'm misunderstanding something ...

Sorry for the multiple posts ... the more I think about it, the more ideas I get... I think it might actually be helpful that when you click a node under a Scene, the level/rate sliders adjust that node as a member of the Scene, NOT it's local level/rate. I think the local level/rate should be more difficult to adjust. Set them up in the MyLighting section, and then thats it. OTHERWISE, I think they should be colored the same. When I click a node in MyLighting or a node under a scene name, even though they're different colors, I'm adjusting the same level/rate sliders. The different colors confused me. Okay, i'll shutup now.

After re-reading your post, I agree that "Local" should be used, but it should be used when adjusting the node's level/rate ... aka the insteon "Local onlevel and ramp rate" Also, there isn't a place where you can change the on level/ramp rate for a device in BOTH ISY and the Device. This is what I assumed was the case yesterday, but in fact, you have separate controls for when the ISY is the controller and a device is added to a scene as a "controller". I think the Local level/rate needs to be labeled, that should be easy. The most non-obvious part, IMO, is that clicking a controller inside a scene, and clicking the scene name presents you with SEPARATE level/rate sliders. Honestly, at first, I thought that once a device was a member of the scene, by clicking that device in the tree, you were adjusting the devices level/rate FOR THAT SCENE. That's not the case; you're adjusting the LOCAL level/rate. I then thought that by clicking the scene name, it was just a shortcut to see all of the device sliders at once and use the handy"Apply Changes to All Devices" shortcut. This of course is changing the level/rate to be used when the scene is called by ISY.

Yes, but they can be stored on the Device in TWO contexts ... as the local level/rate as well as parameters of an insteon group. So if you push the button "on" ... the switch reacts according to its LOCAL level/rate. If you control it from a linked device (say as a 3-way, or an insteon "scene"), it reacts based on the level/rate for that group. THIRDLY, from what I understand from yesterdays discussion, the ISY is a separate controller, which has it's OWN level/rate by which the device reacts. So you can click on a node in My Lighting and set the LOCAL (to the device) level/rate. Then you create a scene and click the scene name and set all of the levels/rates (used when controlled by the ISY) THEN you add a controller to the scene (say a KPL button), click THAT, and set levels/rates when THAT is the controller of the scene. It gets confusing since all three of these levels/ramp rates can be accessed from one Scene item in the network tree. (Click a Scene Name, click a Controller name, click a Device name) SOMEhow the context in which the level/rate sliders appear needs to be clarified.

I have a motion sensor that when tripped, turns on security lights around the house ("Coach Lights" & "Landscape Lights"). After 11pm, the lights are off and if someone walks by, I want the lights to come on for 5 minutes, then turn off. However, lets say I'm having a party, turned the lights on manually and want them left on all evening. I don't want someone to walk by the motion sensor, fire the program and then have them turned off 5 minutes later. Will this work: Driveway Motion Program: If From Sunset //Only run at night To Sunrise (next day) And Status 'Coach Lights @ Front Door' is Off //Only run if the lights weren't already on And Receive X10 House Code 'B' Unit Code '2' Command '3 - On' //run upon receipt of the x10 trigger Then Set 'Coach Lights @ Front Door' On //turn on the coach lights Run program 'Turn On Landscape' //test and turn on landscape lights Wait 5 minutes Set 'Coach Lights @ Front Door' Off Finally - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Turn On Landscape Program: If Status 'Landscape Lights - Front/Left' is Off //if the landscape lights weren't already on Then Set Scene 'Landscape Lights' On Wait 5 minutes Set Scene 'Landscape Lights' Off Finally - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') My only concern is that when the Then starts running, it makes the If FALSE. Does this then cause the program to immediately BREAK and jump to the finally, never turning the light off?

I agree that this would clear up my confusion from yesterday I think that the term "local" should be reserved for the default onlevel/ramp rate at the insteon device. This is how the smarthome documentation refers to it, and everyone usually STARTS reading that documentation when they install their switches. So they've been taught (I've been taught) that a "local onlevel/ramp rate" is that which happens when you physically press a switch ... the light fades up to the over seconds/minutes. Maybe "Controller OnLevel" and "Controller Ramp Rate" when a controller in a scene is selected and "Scene OnLevel" or "ISY OnLevel" or "Program OnLevel" when the scene is selected? Not sure on this one. I agree that this needs to be more clearly defined. Maybe even so far as to also change the background screen color of the sliders area to differentiate what it is you're changing.

I agree that my Pronto TSU7000 -> IR543 -> ISY -> Insteon works great! I used the X10 IR remote to learn the codes to my pronto. With the pronto's RF -> IR extender, I don't even point the pronto ... I can walk around the house firing off different scenes in the ISY from my pronto touch screen. (Including X10 in the ISY was the tipping point for my ISY purchase! My outdoor hawkeye motion sensors work again too!) Cheers! ~shawn

ahh, the trade-off. Sounds good ... carry on!

Indeed, thanks for your unending patience Michel! I guess why I was confused is because of what is actually going on "under the hood": In order for that to work, you're actually making three separate insteon groups in the devices; an insteon group for the "ISY Scene", plus an insteon group for each Controller that is part of the "ISY Scene". All the while, calling this just one "Scene" In MY mind, if you want different onlevels/ramp rates for different controllers of the same group of devices , you make a new scene for each. In your example, I'd make an "Entry" scene, an "Exit" scene and an "I want it done a third way triggered by ISY" scene. The way you've implemented this provides all the functionality one would want, but it think it confuses things when your intention is to simplify this scenario. I'm interested to see what others think about this ... Is this method easier, or more confusing in the long-run?[/i]

Okay, you're right mark, I'm hijacking your thread ... I'll continue my confusion over here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?p=1722#1722

I'm confused as to why there are two different sets of onlevels and ramp rates. When you click the SCENE name and set all of the sliders for onlevels and ramprates, these are apparently only stored in the ISY. THEN when you click on the controller in that scene you have the option of "Copy Scene Attributes from " I understand you can have a scene with no physical controller. (the ISY can fire it) But if you DO Have a controller in it, why would it have DIFFERENT onlevels/ramp rates? Once a physical controller is a member of a group, i think it should fire the same onlevel/ramp rates that would have been fired had the ISY triggered the scene. Does this make sense? thanks! ~shawn

Yes aLF, this is about linking, and as un-intuitive as it is to have a scene with no responders, only controllers in it, that's how to make a virtual N-way circuit in ISY. You just make a scene, then drop all of the related switches into it as CONTROLLERS, and your LED's will ramp up and down as you expect them to.