LeeG

az1324 I don't like any of that simulated state change stuff. The Dry and Wet nodes are there for a purpose. Trying to shoe horn in something to represent a Heartbeat simply to avoid the Leak Sensor having a Heartbeat node does not sound good to me. My Leak Sensor sends the Wet Group 2 On several times about 15 seconds apart (I did not time it) even with the Group Cleanup Direct messages being sent. After a minute or two the Leak Sensor stops sending the Group 2 On even though it is still Wet. No way to know the engineering thinking but it looks like they wanted to repeat enough Group 2 On messages to be certain the Wet indication was received.

Michel If a Group 1 On is simulated for each Group 4 On Heartbeat what does that do to the normal state of the Dry and Wet nodes. If the Leak Sensor is actually Wet (in water), node Dry=Off and node Wet=On. Does this simulated Group 1 On change the node pattern to Dry, marking node Dry=On and node Wet=Off even though the Leak Sensor is still actually Wet? That does not sound good to me. If the node pattern after the simulated Group 1 On is node Dry=On and node Wet=On that destroys the normal node pattern. Which node state is to be believed? This does not sound good to me either. az1324 I have no doubt the Heartbeat Group 4 On will be received in the next 24 hour cycle. Just want to see it happen as you have to complete that part of the test cycle. Once that is confirmed I will see if a single Responder link in the PLM with Group FF produces the same results as 3 individual Responder links. I don't like the idea of a mismatch in the number of link records in the Controller and Responder. If a single Group FF in the Leak Sensor is required to get the Group Cleanup Direct messages I would prefer a single link record in the PLM to match.

Michel It does look like the PLM is reacting the way it would be expected to react. It needs a Responder link for Group 4 before it will pass either a Group Broadcast or Group Cleanup Direct for Group 4. I did not receive a Group 4 On over a period of 26+ hours. Added the Responder link for Group 4 to the PLM and now receive Group 4 On in addition to the Group 1 On and Group 2 On I was receiving before. The following was generated by two Set button presses on the Leak Sensor. The Leak Sensor sends the Group 4 On a few seconds after the last Set button press messages. When the Leak Sensor is actually made Wet by placing in water or Dry by removing from water, the Group 4 On does not get generated. It will take another 24 hour period to confirm the Group 4 On Heartbeat happens without the Set button press. I feel certain it will send the Group 4 On Heartbeat in 24 hours. 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000002 C71102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000002 C71102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 13AC99 411102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110102 C70600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000004 C71104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000001 C31101 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000001 C71101 0 :11 0250 217ACC 13AC99 411101 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110101 C30600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110101 C70600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000004 C71104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000004 C71104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 13AC99 411104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110104 C70600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110104 C70600

The thermostat does not respond to the Scene when using Fast On. Need to use the On command.

Show Device Links Table will display the link records in the thermostat.

Sorry, I have not accurately described the conditions. When the Group Cleanup Direct messages for Group 2 and Group 4 were traced the PLM had other links. I had done a Set button link between the Leak Sensor and the PLM but had not cleared the PLM of other link records that had been established for testing of Group 4 messages. I factory reset the PLM, relinked to the Leak Sensor with the Set button, which is the configuration I have been using for these last series of tests. With these last tests the PLM started out with only a Responder link for Group 2 which was established with the Set button link. With that as the only link record in the PLM the only thing being passed out from the PLM were messages for Group 2. I added a Responder link for Group 1 to the PLM at which point I now get Group 1 and Group 2 messages. These include the Group Cleanup Direct messages because of the unusual Controller link record in the Leak Sensor that it created when I Set button linked with the PLM. Something in that link record directs the Leak Sensor to include sending Group Cleanup Direct messages. I have not yet seen a Group 4 message of any kind since I factory reset the PLM. Have not yet reached a full 24 hours yet. Once that time passes I will add a responder link in the PLM for Group 4. I expect at that point to see Group 4 messages. That activity will not be done until this evening when I get back. After that I will change one of the existing responder link records to Group FF and erase the other links to see if that allows the PLM to pass all Group numbers

What kind of responder link records were generated in the thermostat to support this Scene that is changing Heat and Cool set points with the same Scene number. It would be unusual for a device to react to multiple responder link records with the same Scene number.

The Group Cleanup Direct messages are generated as a result of that Set button generated link record in the Leak Sensor. That is the only link record in the Leak Sensor for the test PLM 13.AC.99 0FE8 : E2 FF 13.AC.99 03 1F 01 Obviously the Group number (FF) is unusual but the On Level (03) and Unit number (01) are also values that might have some control over whether the Leak Sensor sends Group Cleanup Direct messages or not. Since what I would call conventional Controller link records generated by the ISY when the device is add do not result in the Cleanup messages, something in the above link record is controlling. I would hope something in the Developer information would explain what is directing the Leak Sensor to send the Cleanup messages.

With the following link record in the Leak Sensor which was generated by the Leak Sensor when it was Set button linked to a PLM 0FE8 : E2 FF 13.AC.99 03 1F 01 the Leak Sensor is sending a Group 2 On with a tap of the Set button on the Leak Sensor. The following link record was generated in the PLM by the Set button link with the Leak Sensor A2 02 21.7A.CC 00 00 00 I was not getting a Group 1 On with a tap of the Set button on the Leak Sensor until I added a Responder link for Group 1 to the PLM A2 01 21.7A.CC 00 00 00 With both Responder link records in the PLM and the single Controller link record in the Leak Sensor I now get Group 1 On and Group 2 On. I have not yet seen a Group 4 On without a Responder link in the PLM for Group 4. It has not been 24 hours with this link record configuration in the PLM. Since the PLM did not pass the Group 1 On message to the application until the PLM had a Responder link for Group 1 I suspect the PLM will not pass a Group 4 On to the application until the PLM has a Responder link for Group 4. I am waiting a full 24 hour cycle without the Responder link for Group 4 to confirm this. Once a full 24 hours has passed I will add a Responder link for Group 4 to the PLM and see if Group 4 On message is then passed to the application. I believe with the Responder link for Group 4 in the PLM the Group 4 Heartbeat message will be passed to the application. It appears like the single odd looking Set button generated link record in the Leak Sensor causes the Leak Sensor to send Group 1,2,4 On messages. The PLM, a v92 2413U, only passes those Group x On messages to the application for which it has an equivalent Responder link record. EDIT: "Is the opposite true that if the responder's link db record specifies group FF then it sees all other group messages?" I don't know the answer to that question yet. The initial evaluation of what messages are received by the application is using the Set button link generated link record in the PLM. I wanted to see what the results were when the links were generated by the hardware/firmware of the respective device. Since the PLM firmware was written long before the existence of a Leak Sensor I am not surprised that the PLM requires a conventional link record for each Group it passes On to the application. Once I confirm the Group 4 On will not be seen by the application without a Group 4 responder link in the PLM I can change the PLM link record to Group FF as the only responder link for the Leak Sensor Insteon address and see what messages the PLM passes to the application. It will be Wednesday evening EST before I can run those tests. I will be out of town for most of the day Wednesday.

When a Motion Sensor LED blinks several times when motion is sensed it indicates the motion sensor is not getting an ACK from one of the Responders. This can be a comm issue including RF problems or a Responder has lost a link record so it does not see the motion sensor messages and thus does not send an ACK. A PLM should not lose link records. It does happen from time to time based on the number of times a Restore Modem (PLM) resolves a problem but some might be attributed to an accidental factory reset of the PLM. I have one very old PLM that does lose its link records pretty consistently. It is not connected to any of my ISYs and is used primary for testing against a very old PLM. If it were not that it still functions for powerline communication I would have junked it long ago.

Since there are no Adjust Scene statements in the posted information it must be the KPL itself that is returning to the last Bright (On Level). The newest SwitchLincs have a Resume Bright feature. It may be the latest KPLs have the same feature. What is the KPL firmware level? It is displayed on the second line in the right pane when the KPL node is selected.

barrygordon Insteon does not support X10 devices in a Scene. An ISY Program can be triggered by whatever device paddle/button is controlling the Scene and the Program can issue X10 commands. If the Scene is being turned On/Off by a device paddle/button and an ISY Program will issue the X10 commands, add a Wait 2-3 seconds before issuing the X10 commands. The Scene commands being issued by the device paddle/button press can interfere with the X10 commands if a Wait 2-3 seconds is not used.

oberkc makes an excellent point about the wiring. The electrician should install the wiring as if the light and fan will be controlled by separate switches on the wall. This will support the installation of a FanLinc in the Fan/Light housing but also allows the restoration to a manual switch configuration if the house is sold without Insteon. Some consider the existence of automation a plus, some consider it a minus. Beyond the Fan/Light question, make sure ever box has a Line and a Neutral. Minor difference in wiring cost (if any) but makes it much easier to install Insteon devices at a later time.

A single link record for that particular PLM - I generated with the Set button so the Leak Sensor generated the actual link record. I don't have a subscription so hopefully your doc will explain the details. 0FE8 : E2 FF 13.AC.99 03 1F 01

I'd like to run an existing scene at a level dimmer than called for in the scene. (1) Is that possible? (Set Scene doesn't offer a % level at which to set the scene.) Yes, with an Adjust Scene Program statement. However, it requires an Adjust Scene statement for each Responder so if there are lots of Responders it will take lots of Program statements. (2) If not possible, is there an easier way to do this other than just making another scene with different on levels? I tried setting the scene to level "Brighten" and repeated that 5 times, but that seems to overwhelm the ISY - sometimes it takes a very long time to come up. (3) The obvious way appears to me to be just to make another scene with the different on levels. There are a LOT of devices in each scene I want to do this with - is there an easy way to copy a scene to a new scene? I don't think so but anyone who knows of a way please jump in.

I’m not sure the group bit is a mistake in the broadcast message. With the right format link record the Leak Sensor generates the standard Group Cleanup Direct message. 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000002 C71102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000002 C71102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 13AC99 411102 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110102 C70600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110102 C70600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000004 C71104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 000004 C71104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 13AC99 411104 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110104 C30600 0 :11 0250 217ACC 110104 C70600

An Insteon Direct command cannot affect a Secondary KPL LED, either On or Off, because the Direct command has no placeholder to identify the specific Secondary button. As a Responder to a Scene the specific Secondary KPL button is identified so the KPL button LED can be turned On or Off with a Scene.

jjwinston Post the Program(s) involved. Right click Program name, select Copy to Clipboard and paste to forum. Also the Scene(s) involved. Images are still being suppressed so unless you have the means to put the images on another host Server simply define the Scenes with text Scene X What are the Controllers What are the Responders Scene Y What are the Controllers What are the Responders etc. As Mike already mentioned using Main A or button H on the same KPL as the Controller the outlet level is controlled by the Local On Level. When the controller is not a KPL button on the KPL with the load attached, then the KPL response is determined by the Responder On Level for the respective controller. Insteon is very flexible regarding how each Controller can have a different Responder On Level for each Responder but it makes changing those values on the fly more complex. The ISY does so much automatically when ISY Scenes are defined or altered through the Admin Console it is not always obvious just how many different values have to be changed dynamically to make it all work together. That is why it is important to see the actual Programs posted along with the Scene definitions. If not on 3.3.10 that should also be an activity. Earlier images going back to 3.2.6 might not be getting the Local On Level set correctly. Also if on an earlier image now, once on 3.3.10 right click the KPL primary node, select Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine to be sure the ISY has the correct Insteon Engine information.

"Would I make this new ISY scene to include the ControLinc (as controller) and ONE of the devices (matching one of the buttons on the ControLinc) to be controlled (as responder)?" Exactly right. Define an ISY Scene, add the ControLinc button as a Controller and the device as a Responder. "If so, how does this scene know which button on the ControLinc is linked to this device? If this is correct, I would then make a new scene for each of the buttons on the ControLinc?" When the ControLinc is/was added to the ISY there were six nodes defined, one for each ControLinc button. When a ControLinc button is pressed it sends a message to the ISY which indicates which button was pressed. That way the ISY knows which ControLinc button just turned On or Off and what Responder(s) to mark On or Off as appropriate. Yes, each ControLinc button requires a different ISY Scene with the ControLinc button as Controller and whatever devices that should be controlled by that button as Responders. Insteon limits each button such that it can be a Controller in only one Scene. However, a Responder can be controlled by multiple buttons and therefore can appear as a Responder in multiple Scenes. EDIT: when I discussed each ControLinc button, I am referring to each On/Off button pair as a single button. Each On/Off button pair has the same button identifier. The ISY knows whether the On or Off button is pressed by the command that is sent to the ISY.

oberkc An If Control 'xxxxx' is not switched Off by itself does not trigger a Program when a On command is received. Independent of the not, If Control must match the command received, Off in the example, for the Program to be triggered. Easy enough to verify. Code up a test Program that contains an If Control 'xxxxx' is not switched Off as the only thing in the If section. Tap the On paddle. The Program does not trigger, True or False as the command received does not match that specified in the If Control. The only thing that triggers the test Program is an Off command and it always drives the Else because the 'not' results in False.

That half link should not work anyway unless the PLM is not following protocol requirements. Those messages are Group Broadcast messages. The Leak Sensor would send a Group Broadcast message for Group 4 but the PLM should not pass it to the application (ISY) without a corresponding Group 4 Responder link.

Either And or Or works. This is one of those 'what I think' answers rather than 'what I know'. Because If Control is looking at a specific command flow the condition being checked can only exist for the split second the ISY is analyzing the inbound command from the device. It makes And a useless construct where If Control And If Control are involved as that could never be True. I think based on that the And is actually treated as an Or when If Control is combined with If Control. What I think rather than what I know. It certainly looks more logically correct to code it as If Control 'xxxxx' is switched On Or Control 'xxxxx' is switched Fast On but tests show either And or Or produce the same result.

Get rid of the Else in the first Program! As coded whether the If is True (between Sunset and Sunrise) or False (during the day) the same thing happens, invoking Program 2.

dimensionzero If Control looks at the commands coming from the device. With If Control the command from the device must match the command specified in the If Control statement for the Program to trigger. If Control 'xxxxxx' is switched On is looking for the On command and if found triggers the Program. The Then clause runs because it 'is switched On' is True If Control 'xxxxxx' is not switched Off is looking for the Off command and if found triggers the Program. The Else clause runs because 'is not switched Off' is False because of the 'not'.

Program 1 If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Elk Zone 'garage1' is violated or Elk Zone 'garage2' is violated ) Then Run Program 2 Else Program 2 If Then Send X10 '03/On (3)' Set 'garagecornerflood' On wait 2 minutes send x10 '03/off (11)' set 'garagecornerflood' off Else