LeeG

Thanks. That is one of the pieces of information that does not seem to be documented. How to keep the device awake for programmatic changes. The current RemoteLinc uses a press of the Dim/Bright buttons without selecting a specific controller button. I suspect that it worked more by accident the time it was added as a device. Think we will have to wait until the ISY picks up formal support before it works reliably unless someone stumbles into correct sequence, if there is one. Some of the other RF only devices have commands that keep the RF circuitry on but the application has to be looking for a particular message from the device so it knows to issue those commands. Otherwise the device just goes back to sleep to save battery life where no commands are possible.

Hurting2Ride There is no support for the RemoteLinc2 in any of the available Betas as yet. How are you putting the RemoteLinc2 into linking mode for 4 minutes? Lee

Apostolakisl The knowledge I have has been acquired over many years of working with Insteon. Because SmartLabs considers the really “good†information confidential and proprietary it is a difficult subject to get ones arms around. Device features come and go with little warning or explanation. There is a Developer Subscription that can be purchased that gives access to some of the really “good†information but one has to sign an NDA to access that information. The data highlighted in blue are actual Insteon messages. The data in red are PLM commands. PLM messages in the 026x range are outbound messages, in the 025x range are inbound messages. The 06 on the end of the outbound message is the way the PLM ACKs a command/message sent from the ISY to the PLM over the serial interface. The data in blue is covered in the insteondetails.pdf document. There is much more information in that document than is needed to understand Insteon messages. Focus just on the Insteon message structures. Understand the last three bytes first (not counting the 06 ACK on outbound messages). They are Flags, cmd1 (Insteon command code) and cmd2 which varies by command and message type (first 4 bits of Flag).. Cmd2 can be tough because the “good†information is confidential. The basic Insteon message structure has not changed since day 1. Devices that were installed in 05/06 use the same basic messages being used today. Otherwise old and new devices could not interact with each other. It will be impossible for UDI to publish what you are looking for. They have access to confidential information which the NDA prevents them from sharing with the general public. Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:32 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 16.43.BC 0F 11 3F 06 LTONRR (3F) Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 27 11 3F LTONRR (3F) Lee

The insteondetails.pdf (from smartlabs web site) document covers the Insteon message format and content. It is an old document but the Insteon message structure has not changed from 2005. I don't think there is an ISY document that describes the ISY annotation. They are descriptors of the Insteon message itself so once the message is understood the annotation usually makes sense.

apostolakisl Looking over the Event Log in the last post the Max Hops is 2 which indicates the SwitchLinc is incrementing the Max Hop count by 1 for each retry. In the case below the 1st retry was successful. With the previous Event Log showing Max Hops 3 indicating additional retries the transient issue causing the problem is affecting more than a single message flow. Sometimes 1 retry works, other times multiple retries are necessary. Fri 9/30/2011 6:53:30 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 41 13 01 LTO FFRR(01) Fri 9/30/2011 6:53:30 AM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hop s=1, Hops Left=0 Fri 9/30/2011 6:53:30 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 42 13 01 LTO FFRR(01) Fri 9/30/2011 6:53:30 AM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hop s=2, Hops Left=0 Fri 9/30/2011 6:53:30 AM : [ 16 43 BC 1] DOF 1 Lee

apostolakisl The cmd2 field of the Group Cleanup Direct message is the Group number of the particular Controller. For a SwitchLinc it is always 01. For devices such as an 8 button KeypadLinc the cmd2 field contains a value from 01-08 reflecting the Group number of the button pressed. Note the 01 in both the Group Cleanup Direct messages. The cmd2 field is the Group number, having nothing to do with Hop counts. The ISY does not normally display a DOF x message for the Group Cleanup Direct message as the initial Group Broadcast message is what the ISY reacted to and it is the message that generates DOF 0 message. Again the Group number in a Group Broadcast is located in the To address field. The second Group Cleanup Direct is reacted to by the ISY and generates the DOF 1 message because the message sequence appears to be another paddle press where the expected initial Group Broadcast message was not received. We know that is not the actual case in this scenario. Not receiving a Group Broadcast message happens which is why the Group protocol has a Group Cleanup Direct follow up message to insure each Responder reacts to the Group sequence. Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 47 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [ 16 43 BC 1] DOF 1 The Flag byte field containing the Max Hop count in the low order two bits contains the Hops Remaining in the next two bits. xxxx yy zz - xxxx describes the type of message, yy is Hops remaining and zz is Max Hops. Lee

handyman300 Regarding the KeypadLinc, it must be a 6 button KeypadLinc reconfigured to 8 buttons. If the Cat/Subcat values indicated an 8 button KeypadLinc the nodes would start 1,B,C,D, etc. rather than 1,A,B,C,D. The ISY does not recognize nor have the ability to switch between 6/8 button mode. For a 6 button KeypadLinc to add as an 8 button KeypadLinc the Device Type must specify an 8 button KeypadLinc A comm error will often result in a red ! to the left of the device node in the My Lighting tree. Right click on the node and select Query. This will normally clear a transient comm error. Lee

Devices start out with a Max Hop count of 1 as that provides the maximum powerline throughput. Has to do with the maximum time a Responder must wait before sending an ACK. If an ACK is not received the Group Cleanup Direct is reissued with a higher Max Hop count. The very old insteondetails document describes the Max Hop count being incremented by 1 as each retry is done. From this trace it looks like the Max Hop count went from 1 to 3. From the great work ELA is doing we know there are some differences between what the 2007 details document describes and the way things are working today with the latest devices. If powerline communication is otherwise solid it would appear to be a transient short duration situation. In a non automation world this sequence would not produce any adverse symptom. As ELA has found during his testing what appears to be a well working network can be working on the outer edge of reliability. When this is the case it does not take much to create a problem. Try running Scene Test against some of the Scenes. Look at the Max Hop count. If the Max Hop count is higher than 1 even if the test was successful indicates a retry was necessary.

There are two Group Cleanup Direct messages received from the SwitchLnc. They have different Max Hop counts indicating the SwitchLinc did not get an ACK to the first and retried. Since the PLM passed the first Group Cleanup Direct message to the ISY it indicates the PLM sent an ACK and the SwitchLinc failed to receive it. The SwitchLinc increased the Max Hop count and tried again. Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.43.BC 0F.D5.71 47 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [standard-Cleanup][16.43.BC-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Thu 9/29/2011 4:51:31 PM : [ 16 43 BC 1] DOF 1 I think you said this is happening with multiple devices which indicates a powerline issue or perhaps a failing PLM. Are there some switches that work reliably with the two Off sequence? That would tend to eliminate the PLM as a candidate.

When the paddle is pressed a Group Broadcast message is sent followed by a Group Cleanup Direct message. Without the actual detail I cannot be certain but I think the 0 in the first DOF 0 is the cmd2 field (red) from the Group Broadcast. The Group number in located in the To field (blue) of a Group Broadcast message. In my test shown below the Group Cleanup Direct message has the Group number 01 of the paddle in the cmd2 field (red). For devices such as KeypadLincs which can have up to 8 Group numbers, one for each button, the cmd2 field containing the Group number is the means of determining which KeypadLinc button was pressed. I think the ISY is logging a DOF 1 message when the Group Cleanup Direct message is received. The Group Cleanup Direct has Group 01 in the cmd2 field. An Event Trace containing the actual device messages will confirm. Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.3F.93 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [standard-Group][16.3F.93-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [ 16 3F 93 1] DOF 0 Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [ 16 3F 93 1] ST 0 Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 16.3F.93 12.9F.E4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Thu 09/29/2011 03:09:44 PM : [standard-Cleanup][16.3F.93-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Note: the 1 after the device address reflects the node number. A SwitchLinc has one node.

Correct. Unlike HouseLinc2 that traces everything in the log file but only displays the specified level, the ISY traces only the level selected. There is no way to obtain the commands after the fact.

The following sequence is a press and hold of On paddle for manual ramp up. Device was ramped up to a level of 83 out of 255. Thu 9/29/2011 6:51:57 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] BMAN 1 Thu 9/29/2011 6:51:59 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] SMAN 0 Thu 9/29/2011 6:51:59 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] ST 83 This looks like an On paddle tap with the result On level of 137 out of 256 Thu 9/29/2011 6:53:30 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] DON 0 Thu 9/29/2011 6:53:30 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] ST 137 This looks like an Off paddle tap with a result of 0 On Level Thu 9/29/2011 6:53:31 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] DOF 0 Thu 9/29/2011 6:53:31 AM : [ 1 6 4 3 B C 1 ] ST 0 Without Device communications events being set in the Event Viewer it is impossible to know for certain the Insteon message flow.

ergodic Replace the KeypadLinc with a new one. Tests by ELA show the latest devices are better at handling powerline interference and replacing the device is definitive. If that location continues to fail the device has been eliminated. Other sources of interference can be looked for. Lee

raydoc Okay, thanks. Let’s see what is actually happening. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected (most important option). Select one of the devices and change the Ramp Rate (Applied Locally) slider to the fastest rate. What is the device type, firmware level, and post the event viewer trace produced when the Ramp Rate slider was moved. Lee

raydoc The Java cache should be cleared after each ISY firmware update. Since there has been no update that is not a factor. The URL that invokes the Admin Console determines which Admin Console is being invoked. The following list was pulled from the 2.8.16 announcement. a. http://isy/admin - applet (Windows only) b. http://isy/admin.jnlp - Java application (Windows only) c. http://your.isy.ip.address/admin - applet d. http://your.isy.ip.address/admin.jnlp - Java application e. http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.8.16 - applet f. http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.8.16/admin.jnlp - Java application With the Current State information being displayed correctly how wide spread is the 9 minute Ramp Rate? All devices show this, some devices, a specific device. What happens when the value is changed? Lee

raydoc What ISY firmware level is being used? Was the Java cache cleared after the last update? Does the Admin Console version being invoked match the ISY firmware level? If My Lighting is clicked such that a summary of all devices is shown is the Current State column blank for all devices? No information is stored on the PC. Most information is pulled from the ISY by the Admin Console. Device status information is pushed from the ISY to the Admin Console. If the Current State column is blank for all devices likely something is blocking the push of data. Firewalls and AV are common sources of blockage. AVAST just released a new update that has created problems. There is an AVAST configuration change documented as a work around. Kaspersky is another common source. Post back what the Current State column shows for all the devices. Lee

jblackst5000 Correct on both devices. The KeypadLinc could have been added using Start Linking. New INSTEON Device is a valid way of adding most Insteon devices. The RemoteLinc is one of the few devices that have a method specific to that device type. The Link a RemoteLinc prompts for the device to be put into linking mode and then displays the New INSTEON Device popup with the RemoteLinc device type already selected. For most devices leaving the Device Type set to Auto Discover is the preferred choice since the ISY will determine the device type and device firmware level. A few devices, of which the RemoteLinc is one, must have the Device Type field specify the actual device type. Lee

Vegetto420 If these are ISY Scenes the ISY PLM is the Controller with whatever devices are added as Responders. Many devices have the capability to be Controllers and Responders so when a SwitchLinc is added to an ISY Scene as a Controller it is also being defined as a Responder of the Scene. When the Scene name is manipulated the ISY PLM is the functional Controller and whatever On Level and Ramp rates have been defined for the Responders of the ISY Scene will determine how each Responder reacts. This is the result whether the Scene name is driven from an ISY Program, controlling the Scene through the Admin Console or controlling the Scene through a button on an App. The ISY PLM is the Controller and the Responders should react the same regardless of where the Scene directive comes from. Lee

Vegetto420 There is no distinction between Scenes types. There is no such thing as a Time Scene or a Rule Scene or an App Scene as far as the ISY is concerned. A Scene is a Scene is a Scene. A given Scene can be used in as many different ways as you chose. Simply define a Scene in the ISY and use it in the App. Lee

Baypointe Do any Programs change Scene On Level and/or Ramp Rate (Adjust Scene) on a regular basis throughout the day? Lee

raydoc The 9 minute Ramp Rate is normally the result of the information not coming from the ISY. A 0 value equates to 9 minutes and 0 is the value when nothing comes from the ISY. Are Status updates being posted to the Admin Console? Lee

sanders2222 Each Controller of a Scene has a unique set of Responder On Level and Ramp Rate settings. Select the KeypadLinc button below the Scene name and check the On Levels displayed. Lee

easytim The same difference between base and Pro without the IR feature. 256 versus 1024 devices, 300 versus 1000 Scenes. The Pro version allows updates to be held and done as a batch. Suggest looking at the UDI web site which covers the capabilities of each variant. http://www.universal-devices.com/99i.htm Lee

ELA There are a few posts about the latest update to AVAST blocking Current State information. See the following topic for one of the threads. There are others. Perhaps one of the systems has the latest AVAST update and one does not. A Search on Avast will yield some other hits viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6911&hilit=Avast Lee

Dodger Just saw that you are a New user. To add an device to the ISY use Link Management | New INSTEON Device. Enter the Insteon Address and Name that you chose. Click Ok. The ISY will proceed to add the device to the ISY devices in the My Lighting tree and create the necessary link records. To create a Scene use Link Management | New Scene. Enter a Scene name of your choice. Add the OutletLinc to the Scene as described in my previous post. If another Insteon device will control the OutletLinc add that device/button as a Controller of the Scene using the same method as the OutletLinc. Lee