LeeG

mschaefe Sorry I did not respond sooner, I was away from the house. The various folks have covered your questions (I hope). The one thing I would mention is that an ISY Scene with all its various Controllers and Responders is actually made up of usually many independent Insteon Scenes. The ISY Scene XXXX has the PLM as Controller with the various Controller devices and Responder devices as part of One Insteon Scene. An Insteon Scene has many capabilities, some of which can be dynamically changed with Adjust Scene. This Insteon Scene is independent of the other Insteon Scenes that go to make up the ISY Scene. Each Controller device in this ISY Scene has a separate Insteon Scene associated with it. An ISY Scene with 3 Controller devices has 4 independent Insteon Scenes, one Insteon Scene for each Controller device and one Insteon Scene that has the PLM as Controller. Sounds complex but when each Insteon Scene is looked at separately it is more simple than it appears. Please post back if you have more questions.

First, the 120v legs alternate top to bottom, not left and right sides of power panel. Devices can be all on one 120v leg (same as PLM), all on the opposite 120 v leg, or a mixture of both. It may help to know which 120v leg a device is on for debugging but all responders should react regardless of which 120v they are on.

Javi If interested here is the technical reason Direct commands and Scenes are different. Here is a Direct On to an ApplianceLinc. Note the 02 50 Inbound message from ApplianceLinc that indicates it saw the On command and sent back an ACK. Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 13 08 1B 0F 11 FF Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 13.08.1B 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 13.08.1B 22.80.0B 2B 11 FE LTONRR (FE) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 13.08.1B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [13 8 1B 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:06 PM : [ 13 8 1B 1] ST 255 Here is a Scene On to the same ApplianceLinc. Note the ISY marks it On (ST 255) but there is no 02 50 Inbound message. The ISY marks it On because that is what the Scene should do, not that the ISY has any response from device (no 02 50 message) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 92 CF 11 00 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.92 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [13 8 1B 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sun 08/30/2015 04:51:25 PM : [ 13 8 1B 1] ST 255

Verify the coupling devices are working, on opposite 120v legs and reachable by PLM. PLM reachable is for Scenes initiated by Programs.

The Adjust Scene statements are wrong. They are setting ISY Scene information the affect of which would require a Program to use the ISY Scene. The first parameter must specify the Controller. That would be the Top switch for one In Scene statement and the Bottom switch for the other In Scene statement. To copy a Program right click on Program name, select Copy to Clipboard, last entry in list. Then Paste into forum.

A Scene invoked by the PLM (by Program, Admin Console, device), the ISY has no actual device response information. The devices which are marked On/Off are based on the Scene definition, not from actual device responses. A device that is marked On based on Scene definition but failed to actually turn On is not known by the PLM nor the ISY. Same with a Scene initiated by a device although the device that initiated the Scene would know. A device issues a different Insteon command sequence so the device knows each responder device response but these device responses are not routed to the PLM by Insteon. The PLM initiated Scene is done with a different command sequence. That is why a device initiated Scene knows about its responders and the PLM does not. When responders do not actually react to a Scene there is a comm issue. The only time the PLM/ISY gets a device response is when a Direct command is issued.

The text says 11:30 AM, Program said 11:30 PM Uncheck Night Mode Uncheck LED On Motion Sensor Jumper 5 Only jumpered The Motion Sensor Timeout value is used to control time of Closet Light On. The timeout value is reset for each motion detected. Only when 10 minutes with no motion will light turn Off Use two Programs If On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri From 5:00:00AM To 11:30:00AM (same day) And Control 'Master Bathroom / Mstr Bath Closet Sensor' is switched On Then Set 'Master Bathroom / Mstr Bath Closet Light Switch' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') If On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri From 5:00:00AM To 11:30:00AM (same day) And Control 'Master Bathroom / Mstr Bath Closet Sensor' is switched Off And Status 'Master Bathroom / Mstr Bath Closet Light Switch' is On Then Set 'Master Bathroom / Mstr Bath Closet Light Switch' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Javi The ISY will send consecutive Scene On commands with the Admin Console. Here is an event trace of Scene 94 being turned On three times in a row. First Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLISPH] [56] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLISPH 56 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLISPC] [156] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLISPC 156 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 B7 2A 1] [CLIMD] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 14 B7 2A 1] CLIMD 1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [15 9A F9 5] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 15 9A F9 5] ST 255 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [15 9A F9 6] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:05 PM : [ 15 9A F9 6] ST 255 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 0B 70 01 (01) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [std-Direct ] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 B7 2A 0F 6A 20 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:07 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.B7.2A 0F 6A 20 06 (20) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:08 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 2B 6A 38 (38) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:08 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Second Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:13 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:13 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:14 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.B7.2A 22.80.0B 0B 71 4E (4E) Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:14 PM : [std-Direct ] 14.B7.2A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Third Scene On Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 94 CF 11 00 Sat 08/29/2015 03:04:33 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.94 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) A REST command should do the same thing. Can you post the REST command

If a Scene Responder reacts intermittently when Scene turned On/Off with Admin Console the PLM is not missing a link record for that device. PLM link records would not be intermittent. That sounds like an Insteon comm issue. A Scene Responder that never reacts through the Admin Console could be a missing PLM link record or a comm issue.

The 0% Responder On Level is stored in the Responder link record (starts with A2) in the Outdoor On/Off module. That value is set in the device link record when the Scene is created. That value is not part of any command associated with turning the Scene On (and device Off). A2 xx aa.bb.cc 00 1F 01 -where A2 indicates Responder link record xx is KPL button/Scene number aa.bb.cc is KPL Insteon address 00 is 0% On Level 1F is 0.1 Ramp Rate 01 is Responder group number See link 4 for actual example Check the Outdoor On/Off module link database

Scenes can be used for both MS's. The MS in the bathroom is On Only and uses a Scene to turn on light. The MS outside of bathroom is On Only and turns the light Off. How the Responder bath light reacts is based on the Scene Responder On Level for the bath light. The Scene used by the MS in the bathroom has the Responder On Level set to 100% to turn light On. The Scene used by the MS outside the bathroom has the Responder On Level for the bath light set to 0% On Level. A Scene On to a Responder with 0% On Level turns the device Off. That gets you back to fast Scene response. If this is more confusion than help ignore the post. As you learn how Insteon works things like this will be easy to understand.

GMD99 The I/O Linc Sensor is designed to turn On with GND applied to Sensor. When GND is removed (when external switch opens) an internal pullup resister applies 5V DC to Sensor which insures Sensor turns Off. However you wire it the Sensor must have GND or something very close to GND to have Sensor turn On. The 2.25v DC is not GND so some adjustment is required.

The Program works. The "not switched Off" statement is not necessary. Does not cause a problem but to an observer it appears the Program is missing Else logic.

If the PLM has all the link records it should have then look for another source of symptom. Coupling devices not working, something generating noise, absorbing Insteon signal.

That could be a 2412S PLM with a manufacture date in 2009. Has anyone reported power supply (capacitor) issues with the 2412S? Note: I did not think the 2413S was that old but with a hardware level of v1.0 that could be an early 2413S. If that is a 2413S I would get a new 2413S and keep it on hand.

"The main issue that everyone runs into is that it turns off a device if you are not moving but still occupying the same space that originally triggered an ON coommand from the motion sensor." This happens when the Motion Sensor is not configured correctly. The 'On commands only' option should be checked. Then turning the load device Off is done in a Program when no Motion is sensed for whatever time represents an empty bathroom. I've used that approach for years.

The KPL button that was pressed to affect approx 50 devices, the Scene must have been turned On for it to turn some other KPL buttons On. That means the Responder link record in the Outdoor On/Off module must have a 0% On Level for a Scene On to cause the Outdoor On/Off module Off. When the KPL button is pressed the KPL sends a Group Broadcast that has the Scene number as well as the On command. Unless comm is poor (could be going to garage ?) all Responders should react at the same time. Following the Group Broadcast message the KPL sends a Group Cleanup Direct message to each Responder. This command is ACKed by the Responder and will be retried by KPL if an ACK is not received. For the Outdoor On/Off module to turn On (or maybe it was On and failed to receive the multiple On messages with a 0% On Level Responder link record) multiple Insteon messages would have to fail. The theory that the Outdoor On/Off module reacted by turning On when it should have turned Off is very unlikely. Too many Insteon commands would have to produce the wrong/opposite result. I would look into some other type of problem.

Click on Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status. The value after the PLM Insteon address is the PLM firmware level.

apostolakisl Is the ISY without Membership on 5.0 Alpha? That has been noted on the Alpha.

If the PLM is a 2413S and over 2 years old and it is having link record problems I would replace it. I have some 2413S PLMs that are that old and have never had link record problems. At this point the File | Restore Modem (PLM) is a debug tool to see if the issue is related to PLM link records. The problem could be a comm issue where a coupling device has failed or was moved or unplugged for some reason. Need to know the results of the Restore Modem before proceeding with the next steps.

See this topic for discussion of All On. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13815-another-all-on-event/

Try a File | Restore Modem (PLM) which will rebuild the PLM link database.

Sorry, but If Control 'device' is switched On is very different from If Control 'device' is not switched Off When using If Control statements the command received from device must match the command specified. The If Control ...... is switched On triggers the Program ONLY when an On command is received from device. The If Control ..... is not switched Off triggers the Program ONLY when an Off command is received from device. None of the other commands that may come from a device (Fast On, Fast Off, Dim, Bright, etc) have any affect on the Program. The difference between the two If Control statements is which clause, Then or Else, is executed when the Program is triggered. The If Control ..... is switched On drives the Then clause when On command is received. The If Control ...... is not switched Off drives the Else clause when the Off command is received. Driving the Else clause is the result of the 'not' keyword in the 'not switched Off'. This action is very easy to prove. Code a Program with If Control ....... is not switched Off. Place an Action statement in the Then clause and a different Action statement in the Else clause. Use Action statements that have a visual affect so the event trace will not be required. Send as many commands from the device as you wish. On, Fast On, Fast Off, Dim, Bright, and Off command. The ONLY command that triggers the Program is the Off command and the Else clause will execute.

The 'My Lighting' Scene name is valid for my system as it was migrated from a 99i years ago. Look at the name just below Network under the Main tab. If My Lighting the posted Program is fine. The name could be 'ISY' if the system was created in a 994i. If you have 'ISY' below Network, change 'My Lighting' to 'ISY'. QueryAll - [iD 0072][Parent 0001] If Time is 3:00:00AM Then Set Scene 'My Lighting' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

If the PLM is a 2413S that is 2 years old they have capacitor issues which can result in lost link records in the PLM. First, is the F KPL key showing On in the Admin Console display and the SwitchLinc is showing Off? If this is the case it is not a PLM issue.