upstatemike

I understand where your installer friend is coming from and I am getting close to similiar decision myself. My problem is that I can't afford the time it takes to apply each iteration of issue resolution (paddle issue, firmware issues, I2 issues) across an installation this size. It is one thing to evolve and grow the environment but quite another to keep revisiting already installed devicess over and over and a couple of years down the road to still not have things to a point of being stable and reliable. Unfortuately the other protocol options are also facing issues of their own so there is no clear "go forward strategy" that stands out. Besides my own issues I am supporting some local electricians who are beginning to install smart switches and I need to decide where to go from here. I'm thinking of opening a discussion on CocooonTech this evening on this topic.

Oktane- Did you ever resolve this? I think some other folks (including me) are seeing similiar issues.

This is the big problem that everyone is concerned about. For small installations (less than 50 devices say) it is just annoying but for large installations it is absolutely catastrophic.

Are you sure the problem is the Icon lamplinc? Did you try linking that RemoteLinc button to something else to confirm the button still links OK?

alf- I have seen this situation as well but it is so intemittent that I have not been able to track it down yet. For me it is a couple of switches and lamplincs that come on by themselves.... not always together. sometmes just one of the lamplincs and other times just one of the switches. I have done many factory resets on all of them and also restored them and deleted and added them back to ISY but it still happens. Only common point is they are all controlled by the same ControLinc. If I ever figure out what causes it I'll let you know but so far I'm totally stumped. (I also have much bigger problems with local reporting across my whole system so I'm not chasing this one very aggressively).

Before contacting Smarthome I decided to take the test switch which is now working since I replaced the PLM and use it to replace the switch at the top of the basement stairs to at least reagain function in that one vital location. The replace process went fine and all of the local links were transferred to the new switch but unfortunately it does not report local operation once I installed it into the new location. I tried restoring the PLM once again to see if that would help but it did not. I next installed the tho old basement stair switch back into the ISY as my test switch to confirm that the issue was really related to the location and not the switch itself. Unfortunately that switch does not report local operation either even though it is now in the test location where the other one was working. So I guess I have some combination of many many bad switches plus some sort of special line noise or loading problem that only affects the reporting of local paddle presses to the PLM without hurting the links between switches, the ability to query a switch or rebuild or replace it. Also, direct commands from the ISY gui get through and operate the switches just fine. I'm not sure how to track down the source of such a selective line problem. I feel like I am going in circles with this stuff and I think I need to step back and review my whole strategy before investing any more time into this.

You are correct. I went to i1 and restored the switch at the top of the basement stairs and it did not resolve anything.

I tested some additional switches in the basement today and I am not getting reports of local activation from any of them. There are just too many to assume the switches are failing. Since the links now appear to be visible in the PLM and ISY, I am not sure what the best next step would be: I could switch to I1 Only mode but I think my KeypadLinc relay might be using some I2 commands? I could stay in Automatic mode and try to have the problem devices re-establish the best communication method but I don't know how to force this. Do I do a query? A restore? Remove and re-add the problem device? I could go back to the last version that worked with these switches... Probably 2.6 (I know 2.8 does not work). Anybody know what the best course of action might be?

The ISY Link table for this switch has the following links for the PLM address of 0C.A5.28 : A2 00 A2 34 A2 39 A2 6C

Hi Michel- This is the process I was following and the window was not populating. I have since looked at the links of some other devices and then tried the switch in question again and this time it worked. Does this process sometimes get stuck or something? In any case I finally got the links to display and there is a link that reads: A2 00 0C.A5.28 FF 1F 00 where 0C.A5.28 is the address of my new PLM. I just rechecked the PLM link table and this time found the switch listed. I don't think I would have missed it the first time so I am confused on why I am getting a different result now. The PLM links I have for this switch are: E2 00 A1 01 E2 34 E2 39 The total link count for the PLM is 785 and the memory location of the last link in the table is 0310.

1- Correct except the switch we are discussing at this point is a SwitchLinc relay, not an Icon. All previous problems with Icons and my test Switchlinc relay were resolved when I replaced the PLM. The basement switch has the same problem but it is a different switch and it used to work fine. 2- Correct. 3- Correct The ISY link table has several links to the switch. 4 of those links include the address of the PLM.

I looked in the PLM link table but could not find the switch in the list. I did a factory reset on the switch and then restored it but that did not change anything. I looked at the device link table but it was empty... I'm not clear how to populate it. While it was open I operated the switch locally and also through the ISY GUI but nothing gets displayed. What else should I do to get something to show in the device link table window?

Went back to 2.6.8 and restored the switch but that did not work either. I am now at 2.6.13 and no joy. This is just like the problem that I solved with the test switch by swapping the PLM except the test switch still works (and I don't have any more PLMs to try.) I'll just replace this switch with the working test switch and be done with it. Hopefully there aren't too many more switches with this problem.

No.

Yes. That was the first thing I tried.

Manual query works fine. Fast On (double tap) does not report.

Not done yet... I noticed today that the switch at the top of my basement stairs was no longer triggering the all lights basement lights of program. It is a relay switch with the same firmware as my test switch (v.2C) but it is older than the test switch. I retested the test switch and it is still reporting fine. So now I am wondering if this is new since one of the recent ISY firmware upgrades? I am currently at 2.6.12 but it could have happened with 2.6.11 or 2.6.10 and I just didn't notice right away. My theory is that relay switch firmware v.2C is where the transition from I1 to I2 happened so some switches reporting that firmware version are I1 devices and others with the same firmware are I2. Could it be that the ISY is treating all of these switches as I2 so the older ones don't report status anymore?

I didn't time it exactly but I it was probably close to 2 hours PLM is HW 2.75 FW 63 ISY is 99i/Pro running 2.6.10

I went ahead and did the PLM swap and that has solved the reporting issues. All switches, new and old, Icon and Switchlinc, are now registering reliably when operated locally. I wonder how often these PLMs are going to fail? I guess I should plan to always have a spare on hand!

I am still having a lot of trouble with switches not reporting their status. These are mostly 3 year old rev1 Icons, not newer I2 stuff. They work in all other respects... linking, control from the ISY gui, etc, but will not report local operation. My PLM is 2.75 hardware with .63 firmware. I have another 2.75 PLM that I could try (left over from the old verson IES touch screen) but I am not sure if it is worth trying it? The hardware rev is the same and maybe its not worth trying unless I get something newer? My concern is writing new links to every single device in my system. Status takes over 10 minutes on startup... I wonder how long a PLM swap will take? Hours and hours? I'm thinking there is a lot of risk in making a swap like this with not much chance of improvement. Is this valid or should I just go for it? (I should add that my family will make life very unpleasant for me if there is any significant outage or other impact to the lighting system as a result of trying this).

Tried it and I am getting the same result. Do you want me to send you the switch so you can observe it first hand?

OK I upgraded to 2.6.9 and ran the tests again. All functions continue to work properly from the gui. Turning the switch On or Off still operates the linked appliacelinc 100% of the time and I can see signal activity (flashing Isteon LEDs) whenever the paddle is pressed so the switch always transmits something. The On paddle never updates the ISY on the first press. If I press the upper paddle repeatedly the status will eventually change in the ISY gui. When it does, the Appliancelinc goes to On and the switch goes to 1% (IT IS A RELAY SWITCH!) The Off paddle never updates the ISY on the first press. If I press the lower paddle repeatedly the status will eventually change in the ISY gui. When it does, the Appliancelinc goes to Off and the switch goes to Off.

The link count says 567. Not sure if it is decimal or hex? Set event viewer to level 2 and there are no entries when I operate the switch. If I control it from the gui I see entries in the event viewer. I would say the switch is not sending anything out except that the linked appliancelinc operates with every switch press... no misses at all. Maybe the wacky Insteon security model that makes the PLM block signals from devices without links to it is messed up and is blocking messages from a valid address?

Ok the link count is 567 (1383?) PLM address is 09.37.DC The switch has a link E2 01 09.37.DC 00 00 01 The switch address is 09.FA.C7 The PLM has a link A2 01 09.FA.C7 02 0A 2C

I have set up the test switch and test appliancelinc with both plugged into the feedthrough on the PLM. I made the switch a controller for scene "TEST" and the appliancelinc is a reponder. Operating the switch causes the linked appliancelinc to operate 100% with no misses (Not a microswitch issue). Neither the switch nor the appliancelinc update in the ISY gui. Both can be queried from the gui and will then update. Switch = 2.5 on the sticker and v.2c in the gui Appliancelinc = 4.1 on the sticker and v.32 in the gui