steve-elves

Success! Removing the previous instance completely and reinstalling it seems to have worked perfectly. It took a little while for UD Mobile to catch up, even after re-sync. I also notice that the setpoint values appear "sticky" in the mobile app - if I bump up the desired temperature by a couple of degrees, the new SP shows up directly on the thermostat and on the device page in the ISY Admin console, but it takes over a minute for the newly-entered SP to reflect accurately in the device details on the mobile app. I'm thinking this is a "feature" of the polling timing, and isn't really a bug. I'm content to be able to practice being patient. Thank you for your efforts in resolving this. I will be purchasing the NS when my free trial runs out - it's worth it!

Got the update from the Node Store (v.1.0.2) but now it won't start from Polyglot 3 - I click "Start", it shows as starting, but then immediately shuts down. I have rebooted both the ISY and Polisy Pro to try to resolve the issue, but no luck yet? Is it possible that the fact I'm on day 2 of a 7 day free trial is causing the issue?

Also, thankyou to Simplextech for responding! I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "UD Mobile back"? Do you mean a backup? Also, please excuse my ignorance, but how do I send you a PM?

It was in the Contact Us section on one page of the website - under "Residential". Perhaps it was the wrong place for me to try to send a message, but I couldn't find another likely slot.

Thanks for the explanation. I figured there was a piece missing somewhere! Do you have contact information for the node server dev handy?

I managed to install the Node Server easily, and it found all my thermostats. From the ISY screen on my PC I can write to setpoints on individual thermostats; programs can change setpoints as well. The issue is with the UD Mobile app on my Samsung phone. I can see the individual thermostats and all their data, but when I try to access any to change the setpoint, I get an error message (see attached). Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks, WHaas - I went ahead and pushed the "Purchase" button - lo and behold, a 7-day Free Trial appeared! Went and installed it - couldn't be simpler to attach. All thermostats were auto-located, and are responding nicely to program commands. I'm very impressed, and will spend the $$ when the free trial expires.

I have 5 NuHeat Signature WiFi programmable thermostats for my under-floor radiant heating, and I love them! I'd very much like to integrate them into my ISY/Polisy so I can monitor my heat and adjust setpoints based on outside temperature, but I'm reluctant to toss $50 at Simplex if they're not in the business anymore. When you click on the St-NuHeat name in the list of node servers for more information, it takes you to a GitHub page that has no references to NuHeat. The ST web page is very sparse and doesn't give much in the way of updates, and when I tried to use the "Contact Us" form the submittal failed for unspecified reasons. This isn't giving me much in the way of "warm fuzzies". Does anyone in the collective know anything about ST? Are they still in business? Has anyone tried the NuHeat Node Server?

I don't use any "Else" logic in my leak programs, so that's one less thing to worry about...

@laryllix: In fact, the blank status doesn't cause an issue with the logic. The leak detection program says "if WET is ON, then shutdown pump". If "Wet" is anything other than "On", the IF statement is FALSE and the THEN statement is not executed. Blanks will cause an issue for my restart logic I test if all leak detectors have ON in the Dry field; if dry is blank it is not ON, so the If statement cannot be true. I'll have to think this one over some more.

@larryllix: Sorry, I don't know of a way to blank a status, other than what I've outlined above. Not sure why you would need to?.......

@larryllix Yeah, I tested the sensors while I was at it. I get the proper "wet" indication relatively quickly, and once I dry off the contacts it goes back to dry relatively quickly as well. It appears that if there is no change in state (from dry to wet or vice versa), the sensors show up with "blank" status (wet, dry, HB) until the heartbeat is sent. It also appears that the HB is sent roughly every 24 hours. The ISY doesn't seem to care that the sensor statuses are blank after a power failure. The blank statuses led me down a nasty rabbit hole in this case - I should have twigged to the hub being the culprit much quicker than I did! Thanks for all your insights!

@Teken Tested 3 times, no recurrence of the problem. Purchased Agave - so far it looks pretty solid. Thanks for your insights. (I hope you didn't exhaust all your handy expletives on the way to the gym!) I'm feeling a bit stupid about this, but in my own defense, the industrial control systems I work with on a daily basis usually have multiple controllers, and all have the ability to write commands from multiple sources to a given device (if you program correctly). Now I vaguely recall a discussion on another thread from long ago that warned against having the Hub and the ISY live on the same network, but I guess I forgot about it. This is a good thing to know for the future. Anybody want to buy a good used Insteon Hub, cheap?

@Teken: Thanks a lot. Hub is now removed entirely. Problem does not recur. I purchased Agave - looks good. Thanks to everyone who chipped in - this has been a real learning experience for me!

@Teken: I knew you were going to say that - and I'm afraid you are right. I regret that it won't allow me to query the status of the relays on my phone, though. Are there any reasonable apps for talking to the ISY from a smartphone? I tried a couple of years ago but couldn't find anything that wasn't kludgy.

Hmmm. If I turn off all relevant devices (ISY, Hub, PLM, and pump relay) and then power on all except the hub, things seem to come back normally. The pump relay is turned on, and stays on. If I then power up the Hub, there seems to be no adverse effect. I think somehow the Hub is getting in the way of proper operation of the ISY. If I turn the pump or the water heater relays off from the Insteon app on my phone, the relays actually do go off, but the actual "off" status is not seen in the admin console of the ISY (it still shows the relay on). If I toggle the pump off from the admin console, status changes to off. If I turn the pump on through the Insteon app, relay goes on but the admin console shows off. If I then turn the pump on from the admin console, status goes to on and relay remains on. I think the Hub is causing all my grief. I like having it, because it makes checking the devices remotely quite easy, but if it's going to shorten my life due to frustration, it will have to go. Are there any downsides to getting rid of the Hub?

Update: What I hadn't mentioned before (mainly because I forgot about it) was that I still have my old Insteon Hub attached. I don't use it for much, except to query the house status when I'm away. It has icons for the pump relay and the water heater relay. I got to thinking that the Hub may be interfering with the proper operation of the ISY, so I deleted the pump relay from the Hub, rebooted it, added it back, and then rebooted all devices (ISY, Hub, PLM, pump relay). Problem still remains - the only way to get the pump back on is to delete and reinstall it.

Well, I've done as @Teken suggested and removed "run at startup" from my leak detection programs. I've also run the "restore device" on the relay module a couple of times. I think the status (or lack thereof) from the leak detector modules is a red herring. When I went to bed last night, 2 of the 5 leak detectors had status information in them (dry = on, wet = off) because I had reset them manually; the other 3 had blank status for dry, wet, and HB. When I got up this morning, 2 more showed the same statuses (dry = on, wet = off) all on their own. I think these guys just report when they feel like it as long as there's no change in their moisture sensors. I've replaced the batteries in all 5 units about 2 months ago. When I ran my test again (power cycle ISY, pump, and PLM) to simulate a whole-house power failure, sure enough the pump relay came back in the Off state and I could not turn it on from the admin console or the relay itself - I had to delete and reinstall the device.

@larryllix As I suspect happens each time the ISY is power cycled, 4 out of 5 leak sensors all come up in an unknown state (i.e. blank). I have to manually push the reset button on each of them. The whole point of having the leak program was to prevent flooding my house if I'm not home and there is a problem. The wrinkle here is that I share my well pump with my neighbor, so if there is a power outage they cannot get the water to come back on if I'm not home. The way it works now is that he phones or texts me, and I log in remotely and remove/replace the pump relay from the ISY configuration. That's OK as far as it goes, but some day I won't be available and they will be without water as a result. He's got three young kids, so the situation could be a bit dire. I'll have to give this a lot more thought. It may be that the whole program thing is a red herring, and the problem actually lies within the relay itself. I've done a "restore device" from the ISY, and tomorrow morning I'll run my "power off" test again and see if there is any difference. Sigh.

Well, it remains quite a mystery to me. I've decided that I will purchase a UPS for my ISY. If it doesn't go off, the problem won't happen (I hope). Thanks to everyone who took the time to think about this and reply! Steve

As per the suggestion of @apostolak, I first tried rebooting the ISY. Problem did not appear. I then turned off the pump from my breaker panel, and then back on again. Problem did not appear. Finally, I powered both the ISY and the pump relay off, waited 30 seconds, then powered both back on (within 5 seconds of each other). Voila! Problem reoccurred. I have another identical relay (same revision) on my hot water tank. No problem with it at all. Again I had to delete and add back the pump relay to ensure it would stay on. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks very much to everyone that has commented so far! It is great to hear from so many, as everyone has different experiences with the ISY. I just want to clarify the particular issue I'm having. The leak sensors are ALL physically dry - there has not been a leak at all, anywhere in the house. The problem specifically arises after a whole-house power failure (in the latest case, our electrical utility was doing a broad upgrade in our area and power was shut off for 6 hours for the whole municipality). After power was restored, all line-powered devices (such as the ISY, lights, relays, etc.) all seem to come back as visible to the ISY; the leak detectors all seem to be in an "unknown" state, as there is neither an "ON" or an "OFF" in the current state box for the wet and dry conditions. It would be nice to know if this is actually the cause of the problem, but I don't know how to tell what program is actually turning the relay off - I can only go by the fact that there is only one program that writes to the relay! Even if this is the case (which I suspect it is), this doesn't seem to explain what is going on when I "fix" the problem by deleting and re-acquiring the relay from the ISY. I make no changes to the leak program (which is the one that turns it off) - I don't even disable it - and everything seems to be fine afterwards. As a bit of background, my real-life occupation is writing and implementing control code for huge industrial control systems. I've been doing this for 25 years, and I have worked on multiple vendors' platforms (Fisher ProVox, Emerson DeltaV, Bailey, Modicon & GE PLCs, etc.). I think I'm reasonably proficient with Boolean and ITTT logic, which is partly responsible for my intense frustration with this problem! There's clearly something going on in the background that I don't understand, and I think it is likely that it is some hardware-related "quirk" that I just don't know about. I'd appreciate any further thoughts that anyone might have!

One other thing just came to mind. The shutoff program actually tries to write to two devices - the waterline valve and the pump relay - while the restore program only writes to the pump. The waterline valve device is actually not installed, and it shows up as a "bad" device in my main list (red exclamation point), Is it possible that this is having an unexpected effect on the program?

I'm using the relay module as part of a well pump program. I have wireless leak detectors in the house, and have a program that checks to see if any of them are reporting wet; if so, the program turns the well pump off (to avoid flooding the house if I'm not home). I have another program that checks to see if ALL the leak detectors are dry, and if so, it will turn the pump back on. The problem I'm seeing has occurred twice. After a power failure for the whole house, when the power returns and the ISY is back on line, the pump relay is stuck in the off position. I can turn it on over the internet and it shows "on", but it almost instantly turns off again. I can turn it on using the button on the front of the relay, but it turns off again. The only way I can seem to fix the problem is to delete the device from the ISY, and add it back in again. I have an identical relay module on my hot water tank, and it doesn't have the same issue. I've looked in the event log, and I see that when I turn the pump on over the web, some program turns it off again right away. This is more than a minor issue for me, since I share my well with a neighbor and he is unable to get water if the pump is off. I trust him completely (he has access to my house when I am gone), but he's not a programmer and it seems a little much to ask him to figure out the ISY! I think the problem might lie in my program for turning the pump off: Water Shutoff - [iD 0009][Parent 000F][Run At Startup] If Status 'Leak Sensors / LaunRm Leak Sens-Dry / LaunRm Leak Sens-Wet' is On Or Status 'Leak Sensors / WS Leak Sens-Dry / WS Leak Sens-Wet' is On Or Status 'Leak Sensors / BathRm Leak Sens-Dry / BathRm Leak Sens-Wet' is On Or Status 'Leak Sensors / Kitchen Leak Sens-Dry / Kitchen Leak Sens-Wet' is On Or Status 'Leak Sensors / BathRm Leak Sens-Dry / BathRm Leak Sens-Wet' is On Then Set 'Waterline Valve' Off Set 'Pump Relay' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I don't understand why the status line for each sensor shows "Leak Sensors / LaunRm Leak Sens-Dry / LaunRm Leak Sens-Wet". If I look at the program that restores the pump, it looks like this: Water Restore - [iD 0008][Parent 000F][Run At Startup] If Status 'Leak Sensors / LaunRm Leak Sens-Dry' is On And Status 'Leak Sensors / WS Leak Sens-Dry' is On And Status 'Leak Sensors / Kitchen Leak Sens-Dry' is On And Status 'Leak Sensors / BathRm Leak Sens-Dry' is On And Status 'Leak Sensors / Ensuite Leak Sens-Dry' is On Then Set 'Pump Relay' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') As you can see, the status line is different. I'm pretty much at a loss to figure this out. The Event Log is a bit of help, but I can't see where it shows me the exact program that is sending the off command. I've looked in all my other programs, and I don't see anything else turning the pump off. I'd appreciate any help that anyone can give me. Steve Elves ISY Event Log 09-14-2017.zip