YW84U Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Indeed, the power strip is Surge protect only, and the APC BRG1500 UPS (only for the projector in case of power loss for bulb protection) are on the same AC branch circuit - unfortunately, I had no other alternatives when running power to the rack equipment area. The ISY ended up physically there mostly since it ties directly into the IR repeater system to control the theater lighting via remote. So there is a likelihood that these signal suckers or line noise elements stress out the PLM? I had always thought that the 'quality of the signal' could be hampered, but did not know that they would add load to the PLM... I can easily add a filterlinc, especially if it directly relates to longevity/reliability . I will delete the AL from the mix for certain though. Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELA Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The PLM transmits at a certain voltage level ( about 4-5V p-p) when loaded very lightly. Each Insteon load or each signal sucker increases the current demand on the PLM. As the PLM is required to provide more current two things happen. Its output voltage drops and it gets a little warmer. With enough load the signal level drops so low that communications becomes unreliable. All electronic devices life expectancy is affected by how high of a temperature they are required to operate at. In general the higher the temperature the shorter the life. I have posted a listing of signal suckers I have encountered and their relative "suck level" here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?p=69957#p69957 The "suck" values relate to how much current is demanded by each particular device/load in relation to a single Insteon device/load. From this you can see that having certain devices like some UPS's near to the PLM can be a very bad thing as they will draw the signal level way down. Again it is hard to say for sure, but your having a AL piggy backed to the PLM along with a possible heavy signal sucker load could be leading to shortened PLM life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YW84U Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 My RMA replacement PLM arrived today, and it was recognized instantly by ISY straight off the bat. The restore process went smooth, and preliminary tests show all is back to normal. The replacement I received was v1.B 1305, with 9B Firmware. After going over the posts and suggestions here, I decided to introduce a Filterlinc to isolate the powerbar/UPS. However, even though I had installed dual outlets into the back of my rack area, the width of the PLM and Filterlinc prevent them from being plugged in side by each.... I opted to stack the PLM onto the Filterlinc as I had no other obvious place to go with it. I know there is the reccomendation not to stack modules, but is this in any way acceptable? I do not believe the FL creates heat (as the previous Appliancelinc did), but am I setting myself up for failure? At best, I could relocate the switch to the middle of the 3 gang box and put the outlets to the outside if need be....other than that, I am stumped Any thoughts on this are appreciated!! Cheers, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I had to resort to little 6" extension cords for just such a problem. You could also maybe replace the outlets on each spot of the 2 gang box with the new ones that rotate. Maybe you could turn one 90 to the other with those outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELA Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Hopefully your addition of a filterlinc will greatly improve your communications reliability as well as lessen the load on your PLM. As you said stacking is not recommended. Many have posted that they do it with success. I would avoid it especially with a ISYs interface PLM. The PLM is the most critical component in your install of Insteon devices since it has to be able to communicate with all other devices. The filterlinc will get warm depending upon how much current you draw from it. With a UPS and all your entertainment equipment that could present a rather large load? In addition the 2413 PLM is dual band. I prefer to have the PLM in the "clear" as much as possible for the best possible RF communications. I would recommend you get a short extension cord with a right angle plug and a flat receptacle end ( usually a 3 position plug-in). Use this to remote the PLM up the wall a few feet ( but still within reach of your ISY). You would need to make a bracket to hold the PLM. This would solve the stacking issue and also give the PLM a better line of site for RF comms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwagner010 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 My 2412 failed in March and I replaced it with a 2413S (V1.B -1252) which has now died within 60 days. After unplugging it for 5 minutes it comes back to life only to die a few hours after again, appears the unit is overheating and shutting down. Is there a design flaw (cheap components) in the 2413S? Are there later models that work more reliably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The PLM should not be getting hot. Is it plugged into its own outlet with nothing blocking air flow? Can you check the voltage at the outlet? Check Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status. What is the PLM firmware level. I have a v.9B which is very recent. The 2413S is the only PLM variant available for the ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwagner010 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The PLM should not be getting hot. Is it plugged into its own outlet with nothing blocking air flow? Can you check the voltage at the outlet? Check Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status. What is the PLM firmware level. I have a v.9B which is very recent. The 2413S is the only PLM variant available for the ISY. The firmware is v9B. The outlet tests fine and nothing blocking airflow. The unit just get very warm to the touch over a period of time and then dies until it cools. The worst thing is, a couple of times when it died it turned on ALL lights (not thermostats), which scares me if this happens when I am not home. A real safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well tonight it was my turn to have a 2413S go dead. Label V1.5 1122. FW v.98 LED is Out. Factory reset. LED still Out. Power down ISY994i and 2413S. Power up 2413S and then the ISY994i about ten seconds later. Now in safe mode. Replaced with an older 2413S and restore things. Now back in business. Dead one was bought in November 11/23/2011. So out of warranty. Missed 20% off sale. Though it may not matter. Smarthome shows Back Ordered anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 This is one of my biggest fears aside from loosing the ISY. Couldn't see investing in another PLM to keep as a spare. I am one of those who run the PLM behind a UPS and rely solely on RF to communicate. It has been 100% reliable in this configuration. Time will tell whether that makes a difference. ~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have a feeling it is a poor connection or heat related. Last night the Set LED was out and no reactions with a Factory Reset. Even with minutes of no AC power. This morning it gleefully Factory Reset and Beeped during the Reset. Busyrats PLM test program and Docklight Scripting had no issues communicating with it. Letting it stay powered up and on the serial port of my computer to see if things change later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Might be something like what Skripo posted earlier this week. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It could be what was reported in the thread. I have disassembled many Insteon Modules and troubleshot them. One more would not hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 As stated in the other thread. This is why I have two other brand new PLM's sitting in a back up drawer. One day Insteon might go away or prices will go up etc. Some bonus money came in so I decided to buy some spare parts! Teken Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The two older 2413S PLMs I have are for things like this. I still have many 2412S PLMs that mostly could be made into Electronic Recycling items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The two older 2413S PLMs I have are for things like this.I still have many 2412S PLMs that mostly could be made into Electronic Recycling items. I would be very interested in hearing what you find when you take the failed PLM apart. If it comes down to a burst cap, blown resistor, awesome! Easy fix . . . But, like the SmartLinc even after toying with it for 5 weeks I wasn't able to decern the failure point besides eliminating the basic components such as resistors, caps, diodes, etc. One day I might drop the three SmartLinc to our lab and have one of the engineers poke around and find out what has died in the units and if its a cheap and quick fix I might repair them. Teken . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I will post anything I find. On the 2412N Smartlinc. I remember a thread on the Smarthome Forums. About swollen caps and the fact that the Network Daughter Cards had known issues. Especially with the raw +12 volts {more like 18 volts to 20 Volts} on their voltage regulators. That I believe are 3.3 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I will post anything I find.On the 2412N Smartlinc. I remember a thread on the Smarthome Forums. About swollen caps and the fact that the Network Daughter Cards had known issues. Especially with the raw +12 volts {more like 18 volts to 20 Volts} on their voltage regulators. That I believe are 3.3 volts. I suspect you're correct about the network card. This at least narrows down where to look when I drop it off this summer! As always thank you for the insight and support. Teken . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 98% of the time its the network card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Good thing I had a older revision 2413S. The sales site keeps slipping the Back Orderd Data further out. 03/27/14 is what is says tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I decided to give the problem PLM another chance. It is back in the ISY994i setup and being closely monitored. I see the 2413S Back Order date has again slipped to 04/01/2014. 03/30/2014 It died again. Will post a new thread after doing some further tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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