2475d - Can not determine Insteon engine

[cinbergs]

I just upgraded from ISY99 to 994. The transition went smoothly...almost perfectly! I had hoped the upgrade might fix the communication problem that had developed with my old 2475D inline dimmer and the ISY 99. The ISY 99i had recently lost its ability to communicate with the 2475D. Since it could not communicate, I removed the device from my ISY 994. With the new 994i, I've tried to Add Insteon Unit and have selected Auto Discover, and also manually selected 01,2c; 01.02; and 01.1a and all have failed with the message "Can not determine Insteon engine". How can I get the ISY 994 to acknowledge the 2475D?

 

FYI, I do have the 2475D directly linked to a Remotelinc unit, and two wall switches 2476's one of which is DB. Those still work satisfactorily so I know the 2475D unit is functional. I just can't get the ISY to recognize the 2475D, and I'm sure it used to.

 

I do not know the version of the 2475D device. It is in the attic in an inconvenient location. I was hoping to not go up there and root around. If I have to go up there, I may as well replace it. But do I really need to? The unit is about 8 years old.

 

Any ideas?

[LeeG]

Moving from the 99i to the 994i will not alter the comm characteristics.

 

Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Add the device using New INSTEON Device with Auto Discover. Post the trace.

 

Check that the Access Points are on opposite 120v legs and in RF range of each other. The 4 tap Set button test will verify these conditions.

 

Are there other electronic devices on the same circuit as the PLM ? If so are these on a FilterLinc?

 

It sounds like PLM communication with the InLineLinc has failed. The event trace will show if it is responding to any commands.

[cinbergs]

Thanks for the reply.

 

My PLM is a 2413, which is pretty old. As I understand it, the newer PLM adds dual band capabilities. And if you're right about crossing the power legs, the DB might do it.

 

What's weird is that this setup has worked fine for several years. I haven't moved anything, so developing the communication issues now seems strange.

 

 

 

I appreciate your insights.

ISY-Events-Log.v4.0.5__Thu 2013.11.21 11.58.18 AM.txt

[LeeG]

The InLineLinc is not responding to the command requesting the Insteon Engine supported by the device. Note there are no 02 50 inbound messages. The ISY tries three times, with no response each time.

 

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:29 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 08 37 AC 0F 0D 00

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:29 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 08.37.AC 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:37 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 08 37 AC 0F 0D 00

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:37 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 08.37.AC 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:46 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 08 37 AC 0F 0D 00

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:46 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 08.37.AC 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Thu 11/21/2013 11:57:50 AM : [8 37 AC 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3

 

 

The following is a Query Insteon Engine that worked.

 

Thu 11/21/2013 02:06:40 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 41 95 0F 0D 00

Thu 11/21/2013 02:06:40 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.41.95 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Thu 11/21/2013 02:06:40 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.41.95 22.80.0B 2B 0D 01 (01)

Thu 11/21/2013 02:06:40 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.41.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Unfortunately a working Insteon Mesh Network today does not mean it will work tomorrow. New devices/appliances are added to the home, existing electronics degrade, things like baby monitors operate on the same frequency as Insteon RF.

 

The 2413 PLM is the Dual Band version. What Dual Band device is on the other 120v leg,

[Xathros]

Thanks for the reply.

 

My PLM is a 2413, which is pretty old. As I understand it, the newer PLM adds dual band capabilities. And if you're right about crossing the power legs, the DB might do it.

 

What's weird is that this setup has worked fine for several years. I haven't moved anything, so developing the communication issues now seems strange.

 

Older electronics degrading and making noise on the line

New Electronics that have been added (TV, Cell charger, Laptop charger, new appliances etc)

Degrading electronics within an Insteon device.

Degrading electronics within CFL or LED bulbs.

New SurgeSuppressor/Powerstrip with noise filtering or a UPS added to the line somewhere.

 

Using the list above as a general guide, think about what else happened at the time the problem started.

 

-Xathros

[cinbergs]

Yup, apparently my PLM is the newer DB model. And I have numerous DB dimmer switches installed throughout the house. They're 2876DB's. I thought that would cover me. In fact one of those 2876DB's is linked directly to the 2475D and that switch works the light (without any physical connection between the two). But I still can't get the ISY to add the inline 2475D.

 

I need to think about what else might have changed in the house (not directly related to Insteon).

[Brian H]

The 2876DB is an Icon {lower cost with less features than an Insteon model} Series Switch and it is not Dual Band.

The 28 in the model number was the Icon Line.

The D in the model number indicates Dimmer Type.

I believe the B may indicate the LED color. As the Icons had an Amber or Green LED depending on when it was manufactured. The DB definitely does not indicate Dual Band.

Full Users Manual for the Icon 2876DB.

http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2876db.pdf

[cinbergs]

Dang. Sorry, I looked in my filing cabinet and saw that. I have two switches manually linked to the 2475D inline dimmer. I just took off the switchplates to confirm: They are models 2477D ver 38 and 2476D ver 24.

[LeeG]

What was the result of the 4 tap Set button test?

[cinbergs]

I reinstalled the access points this afternoon to verify they were still communicating. I have two Rev 1.0 units. They don't function quite like the newer ones, although they are compatible. It just took me a while to figure out how to reset them. Smarthome was not able to provide access to a manual for the Rev 1.0 and the current manual doesn't address a 1.0 talking to a 1.0 version. I think I've got though.

 

I also have a pair of RF 2442's and I verified they are talking across the two phases. I'm guess that the two RF units aren't involved with my problem though, since the inline dimmer is not DB??

[LeeG]

If the PLM is on 120v leg A and the InLineLinc is on 120v leg B, RF coupling is needed for the PLM messages to reach the InLineLinc because the InLineLinc is powerline only. An RF signal reaching the InLineLinc would not be useful.