ApplianceLinc - 3-wire to 2-wire Conversion

[dpower]

I'm in the midst of a home studio studio and have installed LED strip lighting around the perimeter of a ceiling cloud so it illuminates the ceiling without being visible. As the cloud (i.e. hanging acoustic bass traps) covers an existing ceiling light fixture, I thought I'd make it easy on myself and rather than uninstall the fixture I simply removed the bulb and used a light socket adapter (http://www.lowes.com/pd_71343-89916-EBI ... facetInfo=) to convert the bulb socket into a 2-prong outlet.

 

The adapter works inasmuch as it powers the LED strip through the ApplianceLinc (i.e. 2456S3). My issue is that the ApplianceLinc doesn't see Insteon commands through the adapter. I tried the ApplianceLinc at a floor-level outlet and it works perfectly. At this point, I'm assuming the lack of the ground is the issue. Is this the case?

 

Questions:

 

1) Is there anything I can do to make the ApplianceLinc work in this application? (i.e. I'm not certain removing the light fixture and exposing the wiring will help as many of the lights in my home are 2-wire only.)

 

2) If I use a dual-band ApplianceLinc in this application, am I correct in assuming it will work as it will receive Insteon commands over RF? (I think I've answered my own question.)

 

3) I have a number of dual-band LampLinc devices. Can these be configured to work as switches rather than dimmers? (I realize they can do fast on / fast off but can they be used with a load that wants a switch rather than a dimmer?)

 

Appreciate any advice you can offer.

 

Thanks,

dp

[oberkc]

Is this the case?

 

No. Ground is only a safety feature and has no bearing on the operation of any (almost, perhaps) electronic device or appliance.

 

If I use a dual-band ApplianceLinc in this application, am I correct in assuming it will work as it will receive Insteon commands over RF?

 

It is worth a try, in my mind. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees.

[Brian H]

No do not use a LampLinc at 100% On and fast ramp rates. If the device you are turning On and Off is not rated to be used on a dimmer. Even at 100% the AC waveform is modified and loads not rated to be on dimmers may act strange or be damaged. If the load can be usd on a dimmer. Then it may work for you.

 

The Ground has no influence on it working. In fact there is a Green wire from the Ground pin on the AC Input to the ground socket on the outlet. It does not even connect anywhere the the internal electronics.

 

To make the test you ran fair. Is the lighting and the outlet you tried on the exact same circuit. If not you could have a noise or signal absorber on the circuit feeding the lights.

[ELA]

hello Dpower,

As Brian suggested ... Have you tried the APL in an receptacle outlet on the same circuit, as close to the failing lamp outlet as possible, while still using the LED strip as load?

 

I have an LED strip light who's power supply is a major signal sucker. I got away with not filtering it because of nearby Dual band units over coming the power line failures.

[dpower]

In my home, the lights are on different circuits than the outlets so, no... I'm not able to test the APL on the same circuit.

 

However, this evening, I plugged a dual-band dimmer into the APL and it immediately started responding to Insteon messages -- proving it's the noise on the line causing the problem. Anyone disagree with this?

 

ELA... You mention using a filter to overcome noisy LED strip interference. What specifically do you recommend as a filter?

 

Thanks,

dp

[oberkc]

Anyone disagree with this?

 

Technically, the load could be attenuating the signal rather thanbinjectiong noise, but the results and solution is the same.

 

At smarthome, search for filterlinc.

[Brian H]

Your tests do indicate a power line noise, signal sucker or phase coupling issue.

The LED strips could be a problem. Though many times a problem load will only cause On OK but Off bad. Because the load is not active when off.

[ELA]

However, this evening, I plugged a dual-band dimmer into the APL and it immediately started responding to Insteon messages -- proving it's the noise on the line causing the problem. Anyone disagree with this?

 

Thanks,

dp

dpower,

Would you please clarify what that test consisted of? As it reads it does not make sense to me. Are you talking about using a feed-thru outlet?

 

From my current understanding you have not proven anything yet.

 

I understood the immediate question to be; can Insteon signals be blocked/corrupted by the light socket adapter?

The problem is to separate that question from the secondary question that follows as to whether or not signal attenuation/degradation due to a signal sucker or noise source could be the issue.

 

One method to determine that was to attempt to communicate with the very same APL->LED strip power supply combination without using the socket adapter. Preferably in the same location ( or as close as possible on the same circuit).

If you eliminated the socket adapter and this worked we might elevate the suspicion that the adapter was at issue.

 

On an assumption that the adapter was not at issue you can test the secondary scenario.

Do you own an ISY?

If so you can use it to help determine where communications is marginal by using level 3 diagnostics.

 

(i.e.) can you communicate with the APL plugged into the socket adapter (without the LED power supply plugged in)?

If so can you then see communications degrade when the LED power supply is then added back as a load to the APL?

 

 

If you should determine the need: ( or to help in your diagnostics by simply trying one)

As already mentioned Filterlincs are recommended as filters when they will fit as a plugin. There are other wire in- filters. I think we all wish there were more filter options.

[bsobel]

First question, do you have AP's bridging your phases? Its very possible that the ceiling is on a different phase from the floor plugs. The new dual band appliance link and an AP on a plug in the room will most likely work just fine.