ISY stopped seeing my ToggleLincs

[Boston-Chris]

Hi,

 

I have an ISY994i and two ToggleLincs. I got it all setup last night and I was able to control both lights. I work up this morning and turned one light on using the Mobilinc app and it worked fine, but then when I went to try and create my first program, I got an error that it couldn't talk to either of my devices and they both had red exclamation points. I tried to query them a few times, turn them off/on, etc. and nothing was working. I restarted the console, but that didn't help.

 

So, I removed them and tried to readd them, but it won't find them. Since then, I've done a factory reset on the ISY, as well as left the ISY and the PLM unplugged for a few hours and then started from scratch, but it won't find them. The event log on level 3 shows the link starting, and then ending, nothing in-between.

 

I'd appreciate any help you could provide.

 

Thanks,

Chris

[Xathros]

Hi Chris-

 

If I had to guess, I'd say your ISY& PLM are on the opposite phase from your switchlincs. Very likely you have a 220V appliance acting as a temporary phase bridge while things were working last night and not this morning. Things like an electric water heater, dryer or stove/oven can pass the insteon signals across the phases when they are on then you lose the phase bridge when they are off. A pair of Insteon Access Points (2443) http://www.smarthome.com/2443/Access-Point-INSTEON-Wireless-Phase-Coupler-Dual-Band/p.aspx with one installed on each phase and within RF range of each other is HIGHLY recommended.

 

You can move the PLM to the same circuit as a switchlinc using an extension cord if necessary and try the add again.

 

-Xathros

[Boston-Chris]

Thank you very much for your reply. Before spending another $80, is there an easy to tell if they're on the opposite phase from my ToggleLinc?

[oberkc]

You can identify the breaker that powers the switchlinc, and hope to find an outlet on the same circuit to temporarily power the PLM...see if this works. Or randomly try other outlets for the PLM and see if one works.

 

If you are familiar with the layout of your panel, and can identify the circuit powering the switchlinc and PLM. From that and the panel layout, you could tell if they are on opposite phases.

 

Or...if your future intentions with insteon go beyond a PLM and switchlinc, simply purchase the two access points. My opinion is that any insteon system should have two, at least. Otherwise, you are going to suffer with these types of problems.

[Boston-Chris]

Thanks, that's actually really helpful - I do know which circuit that both light switches are on (they share one) and there is an outlet on that same breaker. I can run a long network cable back to the ISY from the PLM if I plug it in there. In the long run, it seems obvious that either Access Points or two Dual Band products are going to be needed, but after dropping money on seven ToggleLincs, the PLM, ISY, and Mobilinc, I need to consider the Wife Acceptance Factor before I push my luck with more buys if I don't have to

[Xathros]

Thanks, that's actually really helpful - I do know which circuit that both light switches are on (they share one) and there is an outlet on that same breaker. I can run a long network cable back to the ISY from the PLM if I plug it in there. In the long run, it seems obvious that either Access Points or two Dual Band products are going to be needed, but after dropping money on seven ToggleLincs, the PLM, ISY, and Mobilinc, I need to consider the Wife Acceptance Factor before I push my luck with more buys if I don't have to

 

You would need to put the long network cable between the ISY and the Router/switch. The cat5 cable between the ISY and PLM needs to be short as that is a distance sensitive serial connection rather than ethernet. As I mentioned in my first post, you can use an extension cord to change where the PLM is plugged in as a test if that might be easier than moving the ISY and PLM.

 

-Xathros

[Boston-Chris]

The cat5 cable between the ISY and PLM needs to be short as that is a distance sensitive serial connection rather than ethernet.

 

Crap, red flag on my part here - I have about 10' cable here (although it did work for about 18 hours or so...), perhaps this is the larger issue. Sorry I overlooked that.

 

you can use an extension cord to change where the PLM is plugged in as a test if that might be easier than moving the ISY and PLM.

 

That would probably be easier, I didn't think of it because I assumed you wouldn't want to lengthen getting the signal/from to the PLM from the outlet. I'll give it a shot - but it'll be a strech, 50' to 75'. I'll try that before running a long network cable for the network side of the ISY, and I'll shorten the ISY<->PLM cable.

[Xathros]

10' should be OK between ISY and PLM. Wouldn't recommend much more than 15'

 

On the Insteon side, attenuation due to wire length is less of a concern than noise or attenuation due to signal suckers like noise filtered power strips or UPSs.

 

-Xathros

[oberkc]

it seems obvious that either Access Points or two Dual Band products are going to be needed

 

I consider two access points and an ISY-994 to be the cost of entry into the insteon club, as well as a filter for your computer system. Anything less and you will be shortchanging yourself.

 

This entry fee may be waived, however, if you are talking only a handful of devices.

[Xathros]

It has been my experience that a pair of properly installed access points has a positive effect on the WAF - or maybe just less of a negative effect than not having them. As oberkc pointed out, a Filterlinc or two isn't a bad idea either.

 

Anecdotal data indicates that the access points are more effective than in-the-wall dual band devices as their antennas are more open to the environment than a device 40%+ covered with a grounded plate and stuck in a box in a wall. I'm not saying that a dual band switch won't work for you but I do believe they are very range limited compared to the access points.

 

-Xathros

[bsobel]

Anecdotal data indicates that the access points are more effective than in-the-wall dual band devices as their antennas are more open to the environment than a device 40%+ covered with a grounded plate and stuck in a box in a wall. I'm not saying that a dual band switch won't work for you but I do believe they are very range limited compared to the access points.

 

Ive posted this before, but in my opinion what the dual band in wall switches are good for is bridging circuits in that junction box E.g. if you have two devices on different circuits (or even different legs) its great to connect them. But unless you have an access point very close they aren't very good at being standalone RF bridges without a (very) close by receiver.

 

The lamplincs and new outletlincs are better, those have reasonable range.

 

Bill