BobMiller Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I've seen many posts for thsi issue but I seem to find no satisfaction with any of the suggestions. My scenario: ISY-99i fw: 3.3.10 (oh, i wished you continued to support this) witha PLM 2313S V1.0 (can their FW be upgraded?) 2477D Rev 7.2 1) I setup the dimmer in a bathroom. Got the "Insteon Engine" issue. 2) I setup a second dimmer, same model, in same location. Still got "Engine" issue. 3) In case it was communications, I wired up the dimmer to a plug and plugged it into the same outlet as the PLM 2413S. Still got "Engine" issue. 4) As a test, I hooked up the dimmer, the ISY-99 PLM modem and a 2412UH to the same outlet , with the 2412UH running with the latest HouseLinc SW. I ran the HouseLinc SW and was able to connect to the Dimmer and program settings, etc. The ISY-99 SW could still not read the device. 5) As a note, I was also able to connect to the Dimmer up in my bathroom (the second one that I left installed). So it seems to be good also. My summary of this would be that the ISY99 can't talk to this more modern device. Could it be my PLM? Can the PLM firmware be updated? or is it the ISY-99? HouseLinc can talk to both in either location. ISY-99/PLM can't talk to either. Any suggestions/ideas? I will be running into more of this as I replace failing dimmers/switches with the newer devices. Thanks, Bob ************************************** For reference here is a log (level 3) of step #3. I once saw the dimmer do some blinks after 4 or 5 re-tries, but basically it looks like no communication. Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:20 PM : [24 82 3B ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:20 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:28 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:36 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:39 PM : [24 82 3B 0 ] Failed to add device Thu 03/20/2014 03:45:52 PM : [ Time] 15:45:52 1(0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The PLM did not process the Get Insteon Engine command. There should be a line after each command issued to the PLM that is a mirror image with an 06 on the end. That is the PLM accepting the command. I added the Red line as an example of what the PLM must do. Is the PLM plugged in? Can the ISY send On/Off commands to existing devices? Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:20 PM : [24 82 3B ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:20 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:20 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 06 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:28 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:36 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Thu 03/20/2014 03:44:39 PM : [24 82 3B 0 ] Failed to add device Thu 03/20/2014 03:45:52 PM : [ Time] 15:45:52 1(0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 To answer your question on the PLM's Firmware. No it can not be updated in the field and Smartlabs does not offer a module firmware update service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobMiller Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Brian and Lee, Thanks for your responses and time. Lee, the PLM was definitely plugged in at the time and I could access other devices. I tried the experiment again: ISY-99/PLM plugged into the same outlet as the 2477D that I'm testing. Today, for some reason I did get much more activity but I did get a failure at the end that the ISY-99 could not determine Insteon engine. Here is the latest log - more in line with what you described, Lee. The first transaction was to another Insteon device to prove the connection was there. the second set of transactions were to try to add a device. Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:30 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0C 81 05 0F 13 00 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:30 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0C.81.05 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:30 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0C.81.05 13.25.27 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:30 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 0C.81.05-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:30 AM : [ C 81 5 1] ST 0 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0C 81 05 0F 11 FF Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:31 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0C.81.05 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:31 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0C.81.05 13.25.27 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:31 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 0C.81.05-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:31 AM : [ C 81 5 1] ST 255 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [24 82 3B ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 24 82 3B 0F 0D 00 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 24.82.3B 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 24.82.3B 13.25.27 A7 0D FF (FF) Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [std-Direct Nack] 24.82.3B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 24 82 3B 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Fri 03/21/2014 11:26:54 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 24.82.3B 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:03 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 24 82 3B 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:03 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 24.82.3B 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:04 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 24.82.3B 13.25.27 27 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:04 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 24.82.3B-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:04 AM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 15 Fri 03/21/2014 11:27:04 AM : [24 82 3B 0 ] Failed to add device Thanks again for any ideas. There was a case a few days ago when I was testing this and I powered the ISY up/down to see if that would help, and the ISY seemed to hang and was not visible on the network. However it's been stable since then and operating all other lighting in the house. I wonder if it is flaky? Thanks for your help, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobMiller Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I ran the "add device" a second time (after resetting the 2477D), and got three successive timeouts like in the first case in my earlier post. Thanks again, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 There are multiple things happening on your system that are not expected. First, the Hops Left=1 count should be a Hops left=2 for a device powered from the same outlet as the PLM. Second, the 2477D is not sending or the PLM is not receiving the message (marked in Red) that identifies the device. Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [1f 14 82 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F 14 82 0F 0D 00 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.14.82 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.14.82 22.80.0B AB 0D FF (FF) Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 1F.14.82-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1F 14 82 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.14.82 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01) Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.14.82 22.80.0B 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01) Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:32 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.14.82-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:32 PM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 06 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:33 PM : [LNK-STAT ] 02 53 M(01) gid=00 1F.14.82 021E 41 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:33 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F 14 82 0F 0D 00 Fri 03/21/2014 03:57:33 PM : [LNK-END ] 02 65 06 Is the PLM a 2412S or 2413S? What does Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status show for firmware level of PLM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 He said 2413S in the original post. I wonder if the powerline is being jammed with noise forcing RF comms. That might account for the lost hop. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobMiller Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lee, Thanks again for your quick response. I assume your diag log was an example of what it should be like, since it wasn't my log. PLM Info/Status: 13.25.27 v92 / Connected PLM = 2413S v1.0 0931 During the transaction with my 2477D (the transaction that lasted longer like your example), the 2477D sat a long time with a green light blinking on/off. Then it finally buzzed and looked like it timed out. So there is kind of communication problem. Thanks, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The 2477D is an I2CS device (latest Insteon protocol update) which requires special linking to get it added to the ISY. The blinking LED indicates it went into linking mode as it was commanded to do. It should have sent the missing message in Red in my trace. Without that message the ISY does not know what to do with the device and the device add quits. You could try using Start Linking rather than New INSTEON Device. The device has a different set of responses which might allow the ISY to know the type of device. Yes, the trace I posted was adding an I2CS device to my system to show what the event trace should look like. There was more in my trace which I did not post as it was the sequence of adding the device to my ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobMiller Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Lee, Thanks again for your response. I tried Start Link and had an odd thing happen - the popup window appeared for about 1-3 secs and then disappeared. So I don't seem to be able to do anything with that. I'll play around with it for awhile to see if I can resolve it - it might be because I don't have the latest Java release on my system. So it sounds like what you describe is a known problem with the 2477D (and I assume 2477S). As I upgrade or replace older switches, etc, it looks like my ISY-99 is becoming obsolete sooner than I expected. I assume this is not an issue with the ISY-99x? Thanks again so much for your time and support!! I really appreciate it. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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