Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Looking for advice. PLM and ISY are inside the house in the office IOlinc is inside the garage approx 20' through one wall from office Initially I could not find the IOLinc with the ISY, after a few try's I brought the IOLinc inside and plugged it in to the same plug as the PLM, everything worked fine. Thinking it was an RF range issues I installed a SwitchLinc in the garage (approx 10 ft from the IOLinc) and tried to find the device again with no luck. The error I get is 'The following devices could not be added" and "Cannot determine Insteon Engine". I have tried the phase test (pressed PLM 4 times) and the PLM LED was green and so was the switch in the garage. From this test my belief is that the two devices (PLM and switch) are on the same phase so should the switch not communicate to the IOLinc or am I missing something ?. Any ideas on how to get this to work, I thought for sure the switch would work. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 The PLM and the Dual Band SwitchLinc are on opposite 120v legs. The SwitchLinc would blink Red if on the same 120v leg. That message normally means the first command the ISY sends to the I/O Linc did not get any response after three tries. Are we sure the circuit the SwitchLinc is powered from is the same as the I/O Linc is plugged into. Lighting circuits can be different from that powering the door opener. Are there other sources of interference in the garage such as fluorescence lighting for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 The PLM and the Dual Band SwitchLinc are on opposite 120v legs. The SwitchLinc would blink Red if on the same 120v leg. That message normally means the first command the ISY sends to the I/O Linc did not get any response after three tries. Are we sure the circuit the SwitchLinc is powered from is the same as the I/O Linc is plugged into. Lighting circuits can be different from that powering the door opener. Are there other sources of interference in the garage such as fluorescence lighting for example. Can I make the PLM and the SwitchLinc on the same leg ?, sorry I am a Newbie The Switch and the IOLinc are on the same breaker if that means the same as what you are referring to. There are 4 flourexcent light fixtures in the garage, each with two bulbs if it matter. Here is the Log from the ISY Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:56 PM : [28 C5 F 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Try linking the I/O Linc with all things in the garage turned Off, particularly the fluorescence lighting. Putting the I/O Linc and PLM on the same 120v leg would require changing the location of the breaker powering the garage. I don't think that is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Try linking the I/O Linc with all things in the garage turned Off, particularly the fluorescence lighting. Putting the I/O Linc and PLM on the same 120v leg would require changing the location of the breaker powering the garage. I don't think that is a good idea. Lee, I just tried turning off the lights and I edited my previous posts with the ISY logs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 The log shows no response from the I/O Linc. There should be an 02 50 response from each of the three tries. There is no comm to the I/O Linc Sun 04/27/2014 05:51:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.DA 22.80.0B 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF) Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) first try - no 02 50 response Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) second try - no 02 50 response Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) third try - no 02 50 responser Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:56 PM : [28 C5 F 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 The log shows no response from the I/O Linc. There should be an 02 50 response from each of the three tries. There is no comm to the I/O Linc Sun 04/27/2014 05:51:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.C7.DA 22.80.0B 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF) Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:34 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) first try - no 02 50 response Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:43 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) second try - no 02 50 response Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 28 C5 0F 0F 0D 00 Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:52 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 28.C5.0F 0F 0D 00 06 (00) third try - no 02 50 responser Sun 04/27/2014 03:38:56 PM : [28 C5 F 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 3 So what other options do I have to make this work ?, I was also just reading thorugh some other posts and the PLM in the office/Computer room has a bunch of computer equipment, will this be an issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 If the other equipment is not on a FilterLinc. UPS, computer, router, modem, etc can reduce the Insteon signal. Regardless whether causing this symption the other equipment should be filtered. A good workng Insteon network is a collection of right choices. Could bring in an electrican and have the garage changed to the same 120v leg. If there are other things on that circuit causing problems making that change may not solve the problem. Are there a pair of Access Points installed on opposite 120v legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 If the other equipment is not on a FilterLinc. UPS, computer, router, modem, etc can reduce the Insteon signal. Regardless whether causing this symption the other equipment should be filtered. A good workng Insteon network is a collection of right choices. Could bring in an electrican and have the garage changed to the same 120v leg. If there are other things on that circuit causing problems making that change may not solve the problem. Are there a pair of Access Points installed on opposite 120v legs? Will try filterLinc Electrician will be a very last resort What do you mean by a pair of access points, I have the PLM (office) and switch (garage), when I did the 4 tap test on the PLM both LED's PLM and switch are green. Sorry again for the lack of understanding if I did not get your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 The PLM does not matter as that is the device where the 4 taps were done. The SwitchLinc should be blinking either Red if on same 120v leg as PLM or blinking Green if on the opposite 120v leg. An Insteon network should have a pair of Access Points (now called range extenders if memory is right) plugged into opposite 120v legs. The Access Points seem to work the best when the Access Points are close to the power panel but others install them in various places in the house. The key is that they must be on opposite 120v legs. There should be no need to change which 120v leg is powering the garage so long as the two 120v legs are properly coupled. I've got an errand to run so will be away from the forum for an hour or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ok a few more tests. Plugged extenstion cord from another room into PLM and did the 4 tap test, resulted in SwitchLinc in garage LED blinking red. (fluroescent lights on) Tried to link IOLinc with no success (lights on) Tried to link IOLinc with no success (lights off) I did notice that when I turned the SwitchLinc off that the White LED on the IOLinc was interupted from it;s normal pattern of blinking ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 resulted in SwitchLinc in garage LED blinking red I believe that this indicates that it was recieving the RF signal, but on the SAME leg of you electrical system. Did you have any dual-band devices flashing green (indicating GOOD, on opposite legs)? You need at least one dual-band devices on both legs of you electrical system. If not, comm problems will likely persist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 resulted in SwitchLinc in garage LED blinking red I believe that this indicates that it was recieving the RF signal, but on the SAME leg of you electrical system. Did you have any dual-band devices flashing green (indicating GOOD, on opposite legs)? You need at least one dual-band devices on both legs of you electrical system. If not, comm problems will likely persist. I just have the two devices (PLM and Switchlinc), I will try to add another dual band switch on the other side of the wall (mudroom) in between office and garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 If you are building an Insteon network pick up two access points for phase coupling. If all you want is to have the ISY control the SwitchLinc and the I/O Linc then the approach is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 If you are building an Insteon network pick up two access points for phase coupling. If all you want is to have the ISY control the SwitchLinc and the I/O Linc then the approach is different. Lee, I am going to purchase two and see how that works, I would also like to thank you for your support on this issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Happy to help. It can be difficult to get just a few devices working reliably without the Insteon network under pinning such as a FilterLinc or two and a pair of Access Points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 The PLM does not matter as that is the device where the 4 taps were done. The SwitchLinc should be blinking either Red if on same 120v leg as PLM or blinking Green if on the opposite 120v leg. An Insteon network should have a pair of Access Points (now called range extenders if memory is right) plugged into opposite 120v legs. The Access Points seem to work the best when the Access Points are close to the power panel but others install them in various places in the house. The key is that they must be on opposite 120v legs. There should be no need to change which 120v leg is powering the garage so long as the two 120v legs are properly coupled. I've got an errand to run so will be away from the forum for an hour or two. Lee, Got my devices in today, as for location you mentioned to place on near the panel. Should I place the other one in the garage near the IOlinc provided the two are on opposite phases. My train on thinking is that this would be closest to the IOLinc therefore would have the most success in attaining reliable communication. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Lee, I got both access points/pahse couplers installed perfect. I then tried to get a link to the IOLinc and nothing, after throwing my hands in the air in frustration I ran around the house (to almost every plug) and tested the IOLinc, everything worked and responded as it should. I then moved it back into the garage without the garage door opener plugged into the IOLinc and it worked ????, as soon as I plug in the garage door opener it does not work, any ideas ?. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The opener itself must be generating noise or absorbing the Insteon signal. That is unusual since the opener itself normally is a dead load until directed to move. What is the opener manufacturer? I would try a FilterLinc to isolate the opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waketech Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 The opener itself must be generating noise or absorbing the Insteon signal. That is unusual since the opener itself normally is a dead load until directed to move. What is the opener manufacturer? I would try a FilterLinc to isolate the opener. Lee, The garage door openers is a Overhead Door Odessy 1000, in regards to the filter link I was under the assumption that you could not plug multiple Linc's into one another. If I was to use the FilterLinc I would have to plug that into the IOLinc, correct ?. In any case this may be all for not as the door opener does not have a relay contact to hook the IOLinc up to. I have lloked at some of the threads and the signal that goes from the opener to the wall switch is not a simple open/close but another signal that has the opener, light and lock all on one. Some off the work arounds are to wire the IOLinc to a universal remote/opener to allow for operation. This may be the way I have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELA Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hello Waketech, My newer Garage door was one of the worst signal absorbers I have identified. Here is a list from mild to worst and the garage door opener is at the top of the worst: http://www.elavenue.com/insteon_test_data.html Down below in the picture gallery there is a picture of the isolator I used: Scroll to the right 8 times: ZNF10A Isolator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The FilterLinc would be plugged in first as it does not generate heat. The I/O Linc would plug into the passthru outlet of the FilterLinc. ELA has also posted methods of filtering the opener. I had to connect to the inside of my Wayne Dalton opener controller as they are all multiple button wireless devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Wow! This explains the only occasional problem area in my Insteon network. It didn't ever occur to me to try a FilterLinc. Adding an Access Point in the area had no improvement. I currently have my garage door plugged into the feedthru I/OLinc outlet. I will have to add a FilterLink there. Thanks guys! ~Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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