ISY-994i and Insteon Hub

[DualBandAid]

Can I answer my own question?  One of the above ("ISY Optimized for Smart Home") is to access the ISY from the "connected home" section.  The other is sort of a general skill - which I guess lets you do other things?

 

In other words, what does one do that the other doesn't do?

 

Am I crazy or is this a crazy set up with some weird redundancy?

[TheFallenAngel]

Can I answer my own question? One of the above ("ISY Optimized for Smart Home") is to access the ISY from the "connected home" section. The other is sort of a general skill - which I guess lets you do other things?

 

In other words, what does one do that the other doesn't do?

 

Am I crazy or is this a crazy set up with some weird redundancy?

The video is old from when there was only the Skill. What you need to use now is the native Connected Home.

 

With the skill you'll have to say: "Alexa, tell Izzy to turn the lights on", with the Connective Home (what you should use), you say: "Alexa turn the lights on"

 

Cheers,

Alex

[TheFallenAngel]

Thank you for the response!

 

However, I still am unclear what the network module actually does in the first place.

 

In other words, what does it do? What is it for? A roll my own version of what exactly? It sounds like it predated the echo - so what did it do before the echo was around?

The network module allows you to send commands to anything with http interface. There are a lot of devices that can be operated via the Network module. AV receivers, RGBW strips, IR devices, etc. (many more)

 

For example, I current use it to send commands to my DENON Receiver and control my RGBW lights via the MiLight WiFi Bridge, and soon send IR commands via the iTach IP2IR.

 

With other words, the network module is very useful thing.

 

The 4 main benefits (personally for me) of using the Portal are:

Native use of IFTTT; Native use of Alexa; Network Module; and the outside access without having to open holes in your router manually. From what I understand, other things are coming to it as well..

 

Cheers,

Alex

[stusviews]

The network module also allows sending serial commands. Al our Somfy window covering are controlled using the network module.

[TheFallenAngel]

The network module also allows sending serial commands. Al our Somfy window covering are controlled using the network module.

Could you please elaborate on this? Are you talking about RTI controller like URTIS II or just Somfy Single Channel RTS Dry Contact Interface?

 

Cheers,

Alex

[stusviews]

I send commands to an Autelis Somfy interface which, in turn, controls the Somfy URTSI II. I'm actually controlling two Somfy URTS Interfaces with the Autelis.

[DualBandAid]

The video is old from when there was only the Skill. What you need to use now is the native Connected Home.

 

With the skill you'll have to say: "Alexa, tell Izzy to turn the lights on", with the Connective Home (what you should use), you say: "Alexa turn the lights on"

 

Cheers,

Alex

 

 

Alex, is it as simple as "one is the old way and don't use that if you are starting from scratch...use the new way"?  Or are there pro's and con's to doing one over the other?

[DualBandAid]

Teken, 

 

Thank you for the detailed response.  I have edu-mac-ated myself a bit and now grok things a little better.  I have a few follow-ups.  Can you tell me if these things are correct?

 

1) The ISY portal (among other things I'm sure) also allows for two separate functions.  One, it allows me to control my ISY remotely - with a minimum of set-up hassle.  Two, it provides an "interface" (so to speak) that allows my Amazon Echo to talk to my ISY.  Correct?

 

2) That ISY portal/Echo interface is managed by going to https://my.isy.io and plugging in my portal information and my ISY.  I then add my ISY devices to this interface.  Then I have Echo "Discover Devices" and I'm good to go.

 

3) This requires that I have the native Smart Home skill -- and I do not want the original "ISY skill" -- which is legacy software no new user would use. Correct?  (as in, is there any reason I would want the access the original ISY skill provided?)

 

4) The https://my.isy.io is also the website where I could get remote access to my ISY (independent of the Echo issue).  Correct?

 

And now...the network module.

 

5) The network module is required to have the ISY communicate outside your local network.  Correct?

 

5) Without an ISY portal account - but just the "network module" - I can still go to the website https://my.isy.io and do a version of #2 to get my ISY to talk to my Echo, however, it would require more manual configuration on my part (port-forwarding at home, etc).  Correct?

 

6) I can also use the network module (and the website https://my.isy.io)to get remote access to my ISY - independent of the Echo issue (again just requiring more manual configuration). Correct?

 

7) What if I don't want to go over the internet at all to get my Echo to talk to my ISY?  What if I want local access?  You had mentioned local control in your post: "If you have the time and knowledge you can always use the network module and follow one of several *Roll your own* middle ware (RPi) methods where it allows you to have local Amazon Echo control via the native network module. There are at least two methods in this forum which lists out the steps and procedures."  I assume we are talking about the same thing.  But I can't seem to find the links in the forum.  Can you point me in the right direction?

 

Thank you again as always!

 

 

 

 

Hello,

 

There are a few specifics I will try to address so please let me know if there is anything unclear in my statement to you.

 

1. Network Module: In the past this module had to be purchased separately like any other module and is a one time purchase. Now UDI has bundled the network module to offer even more value to the end user. I personally don't like having to pay someone a annual fee on something I use all the time.

 

As I indicated early on my preference and many others is to purchase the network module so you always have it. Should for what ever reason you decide the costs vs benefit of the ISY Portal is not financially possible. You will always have the native network module in the controller to do what you wish.

 

2. Amazon Echo: Using the portal allows a very simple and stream lined approach in integrating the two systems into one. This is essentially a plug & play approach and is fantastic for those less technically inclined or those who value their time more than money.

 

If you have the time and knowledge you can always use the network module and follow one of several *Roll your own* middle ware (RPi) methods where it allows you to have local Amazon Echo control via the native network module. There are at least two methods in this forum which lists out the steps and procedures.

 

The benefit of going this route would save you the two year $49.XX ISY Portal fees but all of the maintenance would fall squarely upon you. It should also be noted most recently people have indicated some changes have been made and using this method is at times spotty?

 

Portals: You can only subscribe to one cloud based portal whether that be the UDI ISY Portal or the Mobilinc Portal. Keep in mind there are two different services for Mobilinc. One is similar to the ISY Portal where as the other was intended to allow port free connections, push notifications, etc.

[Teken]

Teken, 

 

Thank you for the detailed response.  I have edu-mac-ated myself a bit and now grok things a little better.  I have a few follow-ups.  Can you tell me if these things are correct?

 

1) The ISY portal (among other things I'm sure) also allows for two separate functions.  One, it allows me to control my ISY remotely - with a minimum of set-up hassle.  Two, it provides an "interface" (so to speak) that allows my Amazon Echo to talk to my ISY.  Correct? <- Yes

 

2) That ISY portal/Echo interface is managed by going to https://my.isy.io and plugging in my portal information and my ISY.  I then add my ISY devices to this interface.  Then I have Echo "Discover Devices" and I'm good to go. <- Yes

 

3) This requires that I have the native Smart Home skill -- and I do not want the original "ISY skill" -- which is legacy software no new user would use. Correct?  (as in, is there any reason I would want the access the original ISY skill provided?)

 

4) The https://my.isy.io is also the website where I could get remote access to my ISY (independent of the Echo issue).  Correct? <- Yes

 

And now...the network module.

 

5) The network module is required to have the ISY communicate outside your local network.  Correct? <- No, the network module allows you to create *Network* resources to connect and talk to various IP based devices / services. The ISY has a NIC card which allows Ethernet connection and via port forwarding, DNS services, you can access and control your ISY Series Controller. 

 

5) Without an ISY portal account - but just the "network module" - I can still go to the website https://my.isy.io and do a version of #2 to get my ISY to talk to my Echo, however, it would require more manual configuration on my part (port-forwarding at home, etc).  Correct? <- No, you would be using the network module to talk to middle ware like the RPi which holds the 3rd party Echo program.

 

6) I can also use the network module (and the website https://my.isy.io)to get remote access to my ISY - independent of the Echo issue (again just requiring more manual configuration). Correct? <- The my.isy.io offers generally speaking two things: Remote access, control, with out the need to set up port forwarding or have a subscription to a DNS service. It also allows you to integrate 3rd party services which UDI has included now such as IFTTT, Amazon Echo, and in the future Harmony, Honeywell Comfort, Push something?

 

7) What if I don't want to go over the internet at all to get my Echo to talk to my ISY?  What if I want local access?  You had mentioned local control in your post: "If you have the time and knowledge you can always use the network module and follow one of several *Roll your own* middle ware (RPi) methods where it allows you to have local Amazon Echo control via the native network module. There are at least two methods in this forum which lists out the steps and procedures."  I assume we are talking about the same thing.  But I can't seem to find the links in the forum.  Can you point me in the right direction? <- In the big picture even if you roll your own the RPi must always go out to the Internet to talk to the Amazon Echo servers to relay the commands etc. The only thing you gain by rolling your own is no service fee's, and one more hop to complete the very same. What you gain in doing the *Roll your own* is more knowledge, pride of ownership, and being able to say you did this and it works?

 

Either method is just fine and really comes down to use case, expectations, and long term reliability / maintenance. If you like to trouble shoot and have time to spare there is absolutely nothing wrong in going down this route. But, if you just want things to work with out the constant band aid and on going maintenance then paying UDI $49.XX every two years is quite the value having done nothing more than to follow a few steps to enroll both the ISY Series Controller & Amazon Echo to the ISY Cloud Hosted Service.

 

Thank you again as always!

 

Answers in line . . .

[DualBandAid]

Thank you Teken!  I quick three follow-ups to the follow-up...

 

 

5-A) The network module is required to have the ISY communicate outside your local network.  Correct? <- No, the network module allows you to create *Network* resources to connect and talk to various IP based devices / services. The ISY has a NIC card which allows Ethernet connection and via port forwarding, DNS services, you can access and control your ISY Series Controller. 

 

 

 

1) So then I should be able to access my ISY remotely outside my local network WITHOUT the network module?  Just via the proper configuration?  Is that correct?

 

Likewise...

 

5- Without an ISY portal account - but just the "network module" - I can still go to the website https://my.isy.io and do a version of #2 to get my ISY to talk to my Echo, however, it would require more manual configuration on my part (port-forwarding at home, etc).  Correct? <- No, you would be using the network module to talk to middle ware like the RPi which holds the 3rd party Echo program.

 

 

2) So then, even without the network module, I can still find a way for my ISY to talk to my Echo, just with the proper local configuration?  Is that correct?

 

 

7) What if I don't want to go over the internet at all to get my Echo to talk to my ISY?  What if I want local access?  You had mentioned local control in your post: "If you have the time and knowledge you can always use the network module and follow one of several *Roll your own* middle ware (RPi) methods where it allows you to have local Amazon Echo control via the native network module. There are at least two methods in this forum which lists out the steps and procedures."  I assume we are talking about the same thing.  But I can't seem to find the links in the forum.  Can you point me in the right direction? <- In the big picture even if you roll your own the RPi must always go out to the Internet to talk to the Amazon Echo servers to relay the commands etc. The only thing you gain by rolling your own is no service fee's, and one more hop to complete the very same. What you gain in doing the *Roll your own* is more knowledge, pride of ownership, and being able to say you did this and it works?

 

 

 

3) When you so "go out to the internet" are you referring to, for example, going to the "https://my.isy.io" website?  As it stands now, it seems like both methods described her require going to that website.  Is there not a way I could have my ISY talk to my Echo locally on the network (even though the Echo itself may go out to the open internet on occasion)?  In other words, if my internet goes down...but my local network is intact...a system where I can still talk to my ISY via my Echo?

 

And also...you skipped one question...

 

 

3) This requires that I have the native Smart Home skill -- and I do not want the original "ISY skill" -- which is legacy software no new user would use. Correct?  (as in, is there any reason I would want the access the original ISY skill provided?)

 

 

[Teken]

Thank you Teken!  I quick three follow-ups to the follow-up...

 

 

 

 

1) So then I should be able to access my ISY remotely outside my local network WITHOUT the network module?  Just via the proper configuration?  Is that correct? <- Yes

 

Likewise...

 

 

2) So then, even without the network module, I can still find a way for my ISY to talk to my Echo, just with the proper local configuration?  Is that correct? <- Yes, using middleware like the RPi and the software listed in this forum.

 

 

 

 

3) When you so "go out to the internet" are you referring to, for example, going to the "https://my.isy.io" website?  As it stands now, it seems like both methods described her require going to that website.  Is there not a way I could have my ISY talk to my Echo locally on the network (even though the Echo itself may go out to the open internet on occasion)?  In other words, if my internet goes down...but my local network is intact...a system where I can still talk to my ISY via my Echo? <- If your intent is to use the Amazon Echo with the RPi middleware it will require a Internet connection regardless. Echo in its current form is not stand alone product it requires a persistent connection to fully operate via voice commands.

 

And also...you skipped one question...  <- Really? 

 

 

 

 

Answers in line . . .

[DualBandAid]

Thank you again!  I think I got a good handle on it all now.  One thing for clarification.  Regarding the question I quoted as being skipped...

 

3) This requires that I have the native Smart Home skill -- and I do not want the original "ISY skill" -- which is legacy software no new user would use. Correct?  (as in, is there any reason I would want the access the original ISY skill provided?)

 

 

There was a reference early that I "would want to use the native Smart Home skill" -- but that doesn't really explain why.  As in, do I want the native smart home skill because of the way I am using my system?  Or would everyone want it because the prior version is outdated for all users?

[TheFallenAngel]

Thank you again! I think I got a good handle on it all now. One thing for clarification. Regarding the question I quoted as being skipped...

 

 

There was a reference early that I "would want to use the native Smart Home skill" -- but that doesn't really explain why. As in, do I want the native smart home skill because of the way I am using my system? Or would everyone want it because the prior version is outdated for all users?

The only reason to use the old skill is if you currently have thermostats. The new version of the Home Skill will also support them but hasn't been approved yet. Otherwise - the Home Skill is always better way then the original Izzy Skill.

 

Cheers,

Alex

[stusviews]

You also need the skill to run the conditions of a program.

[DualBandAid]

You also need the skill to run the conditions of a program.

 

 

As in, to not just run the program and be beholden to the IF statement...but starting it at say, the THEN (or ELSE) statements?

[Scifietronica]

Is it possible to use the ISY994i and the Insteon Hub at the same time on the same LAN?  I have been sent an Insteon Hub for evaluation but my home is all controlled by the ISY994i. Will there be any issues if I have them both on at the same time?

Yes, this is still my preferred method of using Alexa with Insteon devices.  All my ISY programs, switches, on/off modules, and other devices still work fine from both the ISY and the 2245-222 hub.  I've read about the ISY skill for Alexa and the full home control integration but it still doesn't sound like it will work as well for me.  I want to be able to dim my lighting scenes and all my programs are designed to run autonomously.  Also, don't need to spend another $25/year.  I try to avoid user fees since they do add up.  I COULD use ISY integration to create programs to invoke through Alexa, e.g. "Alexa turn on xyz program to unlock doors" but I don't want to do that yet.  The one issue I have with the 2245-222 is that, on setting up a new device that's already installed on the ISY, it usually requires multiple taps on the 222 app after initial setup to get the switch, etc. to work.  After that it's fine.    See my post and user comments on the Smarthome forum:  http://forum.smartho...353&whichpage=1

[stusviews]

See my #8 reply here.

[DualBandAid]

Scifietronica, I started with the Hub and switched to the ISY, and was looking into using both.  For me, it's because I misunderstood something.  I thought I was going to have to say "Alexa, tell Izy to" (whatever I wanted to do).  And I didn't want to do that.  As I learned the native Home Automation ISY skills allows me to not have to invoke "Izy".  You may already know this.  As for this...

 

 

I want to be able to dim my lighting scenes and all my programs are designed to run autonomously.

 

If I understand this correctly...you can still dim your scenes with just an ISY and no Insteon Hub.  In a way.  I have scenes that I have created in the ISY...and THOSE are not dimmable by voice command, true.  But, in my case, for the few scenes (or groupings) of lights I want to be able to shot something out dim-level wise, I just created a "mirror group" in the Alexa iOS app.  So I have a scene for three lights in my ISY.  And I have a group for those same three lights in the Alexa app.  If I invoke the ISY scene, it will also go to the pre-assigned scene dim level.  But I can also invoke that group and say "Alexa, turn Main Lights to 40%" (or whatever).  They just have to be different names.

 

Not sure if that helps you.  But thought I'd share.