austin_john Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Brian H said: Let us know if it works with an ISY994i controller. I know the ISY994i checks for a connected PLM at startup. I don't think it uses the subcategory ID. So the serial connected 2413U reporting USB. Should not effect things. Thanks, that’s good to know and encouraging. I’ll report back after I receive the unit, modify, and test it.
austin_john Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Did a test run of swapping the Serial daugher board into a USB PLM today without success. The base board looks updated, with two larger capacitors near the connection. But I don;t see any differences otherwise and I'm surprised it didn't work. The part number is 2413X on the base board. I'm not sure that the problem isn't with the ISY, or somewhere else in my system. TBD. FWIW, whatever power issue hit my home left me with some puzzling issues. One HP 8-port switch lost ports 1 & 2, my RainMachine sprinkler controller lost one zone, this PLM/ISY problem, and a yet-to-be-diagnosed issue with another HP 8-port switch and a Unifi AP caused my IOT VLAN to stop operating properly. Edited July 25, 2021 by austin_john Clarification
Brian H Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 Maybe the serial card was effected. At V2.3 they updated the serial interface chip. To one with a higher ESD protection spec. At V2.4 the serial board was redesigned with the new chip and a protective network was added to the serial I/O lines. I had seen a post that indicated some 2413S units serial ports had issues. Besides the power supply problem many of us have seen. Maybe it was effected by the power issue. You did verify the 8 pin connector between the two board are all in place?
bgrubb1 Posted July 26, 2021 Posted July 26, 2021 Sooo rookie mistake I took a perfectly working 2413S and re-capped it as a preventative measure When I put it back together i had the serial board only plugged in on one row of the header. Plugged it in to a red light instead of green. Corrected the issue and have a bright green light but no communication. Suspect I blew the serial interface. Does that sound reasonable ?? does anyone have a dead 2413 S that might have a good serial board they might sell ?? ...Barry
Brian H Posted July 26, 2021 Posted July 26, 2021 Both rows connected but one pin off right or left? Whole row connected to the other row and the other row not connected to anything?
bgrubb1 Posted July 26, 2021 Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) entire row shifted only 4 of 8 connected whole row connected to incorrect row Edited July 26, 2021 by bgrubb1
Brian H Posted July 26, 2021 Posted July 26, 2021 Depending on which pins where connected. There is unregulated +12 volts (about 18.5 volts) on pin 1. It maybe possible it got into some other signal pin. That would depend on which way it was shifted. I have done a similar thing myself. Though in my error. One or more of the male pins on the main board got bent and ended up on the outside of the shell on the serial card.
hart2hart Posted August 8, 2021 Posted August 8, 2021 I fixed 2 of 3 2443 access points. I had 2 version 2.1 that only had 4 capacitors. One worked and the other didn’t L1 on the one that didn’t fix, blinks green, looks suspect. Is it a known failure point on that version?
Teken Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 I know some members have inquired how that huge 10 uF @400V soda can sized capacitor is supposed to fit with in the 2413S PLM casing.I had to repair six of these units for others in the last few months so took some pictures as to how that cap lays inside along with the heat shrink tubing to protect the leads from touching one another. 2
hart2hart Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 Side view of the soda can! I’ve read about doing this on many occasions. What revisions are the PLMs. The couple PLMs and 7 access points I’ve repaired had room to install the large capacitor straight up but it did not leave room for one screw in that corner to be reinstalled holding the PCB in casing.
Teken Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, hart2hart said: I’ve read about doing this on many occasions. What revisions are the PLMs. The couple PLMs and 7 access points I’ve repaired had room to install the large capacitor straight up but it did not leave room for one screw in that corner to be reinstalled holding the PCB in casing. Going off memory several were revision v1.B 05 /43 week 2013. Another was revision v1.C don't recall the production date. Ideally the capacitor would have been installed flush with the PCB but two side components were soldered in place at a angle with no leads left to resolder. ? That being the case the soda can would have been several millimeters off the PCB and would not clear the top cover once installed. ? The safest approach was to install the capacitor and bend the leads to allow the entire component to lay flat within the assembly. Given the long lead 600 volt rated clear heat shrink tubing was installed to insure no possible shorts. Like you I have lots of Access Points (AP) from the past but have since removed them all as the entire home uses dual band devices. I'm totally fine by that as that's less wall warts taking up an outlet along with less energy consumption!
Teken Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 The next ongoing project is to R&R some leak sensors. One literally just died upon needing a battery change. The other was a brand new unit that simply won’t enrol to the Insteon network having tried every possible solution and test! These surface mount components are extremely small and close together so had to order more kapton tape and SMD tweezers as my reflow gun would probably blow off the adjacent components while trying to remove the existing part(s).
LFMc Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 I have an Outdoor Insteon On/Off module that is acting up, so I thought I would open it and check the caps. But this device is totally sealed in it's plastic box, I guess to protect it from moisture. Has anyone found a way to open it so that it might possibly be resealed after repairing it?
Teken Posted November 17, 2021 Posted November 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, LFMc said: I have an Outdoor Insteon On/Off module that is acting up, so I thought I would open it and check the caps. But this device is totally sealed in it's plastic box, I guess to protect it from moisture. Has anyone found a way to open it so that it might possibly be resealed after repairing it? The bottom of the case is pressed fit (FIC). You'll need a plastic spugger / pry tool to go around the perimeter and open it up. 1
hart2hart Posted December 11, 2021 Posted December 11, 2021 Hi. Just a bit of history here and nothing new... I keep a log of everything I've done with ISY, devices, PLM and Nodeservers since it was installed in new house 04/2009. Great reading if you have insomnia. 04/2009 Installed with 2412S 03/2013 Replaced with 2413S 11/2014 Replaced with 2413S 12/2015 Replaced with 2413S 10/2016 Replaced with 2413 V2.0 which had 250V capacitor but had not shown any issues (I have rebuilt and new spare) 12/2021 Recapped the 10/2016 V2.0 PLM with switching power and higher voltage capacitors and left it in service Let's see how it goes.
hart2hart Posted December 12, 2021 Posted December 12, 2021 I’ve got 2 SyncroLincs that detect that dishwasher and washing machine are running that are critical to determine if hot water supply line pump should be on. For example the pump is not run if security is armed away unless say the dishwasher is running. But I digress..The SyncroLincs were discontinued years ago. I’m not sure if it was low volume on sales or there were issues with them. Has anyone opened them up for repair? Mine are still going but I was considering recapping at very least as a preventative measure.
Brian H Posted December 12, 2021 Posted December 12, 2021 I have not repaired any. I have opened one up to see what it has in it. Has the 6.8uF/250V and two 10uF/35V capacitors. We typically see in modules with a switching supply. I have not looked at the bottom of the board to see if it has the same switching supply chip as a 2413S/U Two things to think about. The Neutral power wire is passed over the board from the input on the top to the board to the bottom current sensing device. This may hinder using a larger capacitor due to space issues. If it suddenly goes dead. It has a fuse with wire leads from the AC Line input pin to the board. It is in shrink tubing so reading the value is not possible.
larryllix Posted December 12, 2021 Posted December 12, 2021 I’ve got 2 SyncroLincs that detect that dishwasher and washing machine are running that are critical to determine if hot water supply line pump should be on. For example the pump is not run if security is armed away unless say the dishwasher is running. But I digress..The SyncroLincs were discontinued years ago. I’m not sure if it was low volume on sales or there were issues with them. Has anyone opened them up for repair? Mine are still going but I was considering recapping at very least as a preventative measure. I have one bad one and one used purchase, still working on my dryer.I figure the same thing as the PLMs is happening, and replacing the PSU caps will fix it. Connected to an inductive motor with no other spike absorbing heater load, is likely one of the roughest noise making environments they can be used on. Just a guess, but IMHO new PSU caps should fix the problem.Then I would attempt to add a MOV across the powerlines, inside.Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
hart2hart Posted December 12, 2021 Posted December 12, 2021 Back of PCB. It comes on with green light. Going to gym. Will test fully this week.
Brian H Posted December 12, 2021 Posted December 12, 2021 Same switching chip in the supply. Yours has a longer white neutral wire routed around the 6.8uF 250V cap. Mine is stretched over the cap and has no extra to wrap around the cap.
hart2hart Posted December 13, 2021 Posted December 13, 2021 Same switching chip in the supply. Yours has a longer white neutral wire routed around the 6.8uF 250V cap. Mine is stretched over the cap and has no extra to wrap around the cap.Thanks. Glad it’s same chip so cap values should be good. Yep, I got lucky on neutral but was prepared (in my mind) to replace it if too short.
arskiracer Posted December 23, 2021 Posted December 23, 2021 Anyone know of updated reference design schematics for the 2413S boards? I found this old 2007 design guide for using IN2680A (power line) and IN2682A (RF) modules, complete with reference design schematics and BOMs. My 2413S V2.4 went out, and replacements are impossible to find right now. I was considering debugging it with these schematics, but I assume the reference designs are out of date with V2.4, being the schematics are from 2007 (assuming the actual product even uses the reference design schematics for their chips, but it seems like they probably do, since there are pictures of the actual enclosure). http://cache.insteon.com/pdf/INSTEON_Modem_Developer's_Guide_20071012a.pdf There is also mention that they were working on a combined powerline/RF chip, did that ever happen? I also can't seem to find the IN26xxx ICs on Octopart, so I'm guessing they were either obsoleted by a combined chip, or they are only sourced by Insteon directly.
hart2hart Posted December 23, 2021 Posted December 23, 2021 You may already be way beyond this point , but most failures are fixed by replacing 5 capacitors that are higher rated and rated for a switching power supply. They are listed in this long thread but some are hard to locate some right now.
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