Teken Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) Once you crack that sucker open and see the same caps as we indicated. That will tell you right away. If it has the same caps as before then expect another service call in two years! LOL Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Edited September 16, 2014 by Teken
dstanley Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) apostolakisl said:Somebody should just order like 20 or 30 sets of those capacitors and make a little repair kit to sell. They could easily mail in a padded envelope for pennies instead of the $8 or so Mouser charges. I would like something like that - Mouser shipping to Canada is $20 - can't be that much to stick in the mail - I could supply stamps too! Dwight Edited September 16, 2014 by dstanley 1
Teken Posted September 16, 2014 Posted September 16, 2014 If no one steps up to the plate for the Canadian guys I will break down and get the parts. Since Canada post are a bunch of Nazi rip off con artists I am sure it will cost way more to send it in a regular letter envelop! Sometimes it really sucks aszz living in Canada! Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions 1
ergodic Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 I recapped a PLM that died (and now is reborn), and I just bumped into this thread. So I thought I'd add a couple of notes: 1) I drilled 1/8" holes in the bottom and back top of the PLM. Heat is the big enemy of wet-dielectric capacitors (good or crappy). And mine sits at the top of my garage where summertime temps occasionally get over 100F. Hopefully the venting will reduce the inside case temp a little. 2) My PLM main board was covered in rivers of crusted, dried-up dielectric that had leaked out. I suggest wiping down the board with denatured alcohol. From all the residue I saw I'm wondering if this another instance of the so-called "capacitor plague" of the last decade. Even for crummy electrolytics 2-3 years is too short to start leaking like this, and also the failure timing people are seeing seems suspiciously consistent.
Brian H Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 1) Yes heat is the enemy. One of the reputable capacitor manufacturers. Rate their 105 degree caps at 2000 hours but for each 10 degree lower temperature. The time rating exponentially goes way up.
apostolakisl Posted September 19, 2014 Posted September 19, 2014 1) Yes heat is the enemy. One of the reputable capacitor manufacturers. Rate their 105 degree caps at 2000 hours but for each 10 degree lower temperature. The time rating exponentially goes way up. Maybe we should leave the lid off of it?
ergodic Posted September 20, 2014 Posted September 20, 2014 The rule of thumb for wet electrolytics is every 10°C decrease from the max operating temp doubles the lifetime. Ripple current and operational voltage also play into it. If you really need the thing to last forever (more or less) use film caps for the lower-voltage ones, and an MLCC or organic for the 250V input filter. But that will cost. I wouldn't have quite as big an issue with PLM failures (I'm on my 4th now) if SH would just make the @!#&!!** hardware address user-settable or override-able in some way.
GeorgeRufle Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) My PLM has died. The LED no longer lights up. The sticker says 2413S, V1.4, 1051. As a previous poster has specified there is no visible damage that I can see. I will be ordering the above parts from Mouser but while I wait for them does anyone know of/have a schematic for the 2413S? Edited September 23, 2014 by GeorgeRufle
Teken Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Once you open up the 2413S PLM you will be able to see the parts that need to be replaced. The board is well labeled as to each capacitor. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
Brian H Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I have seen no schematics for the 2413S or 2413U PLM, 2443 HW 2 Access Points. As the board is the same in the later Access Points just different firmware and no daughter card. There are internal photos in the FCC Database but look like an earlier revision with only one capacitor in the raw 12 volt supply. My early revision 1.0 2413S PLMs have the two capacitors in the raw 12 volt supply. Hanging off the PCB with the small coil between them and a fly wire to the back side of the PCB. I have found the specifications sheet for the Power Integrations LNK354GN IC. Used in the raw 12 volt power supply. Edited September 23, 2014 by Brian H
apostolakisl Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 The rule of thumb for wet electrolytics is every 10°C decrease from the max operating temp doubles the lifetime. Ripple current and operational voltage also play into it. If you really need the thing to last forever (more or less) use film caps for the lower-voltage ones, and an MLCC or organic for the 250V input filter. But that will cost. I wouldn't have quite as big an issue with PLM failures (I'm on my 4th now) if SH would just make the @!#&!!** hardware address user-settable or override-able in some way. That would be nice. Like being able to change your mac address. It would make replacing any device easier.
GeorgeRufle Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 I just received the capacitors from Mouser. Replaced them all. After installing them the unit and powering it up the LED is on but flashing between RED and GREEN. Does anybody know what that means? Another unit that I have just lights up green when plugged in.
Teken Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 I would hard reset the one flashing red / green. If it comes back up the same way it's safe to say something else was damaged when it died. The other one should be a solid green when powered up. What is the history of these two PLM's? Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
GeorgeRufle Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 The one that died had no history of problems until it died. A reset didn't change anything. I guess that something other than the capacitors needs replacing. The second one is a replacement that I just purchased from Smarthome. 2413S V1.C 1425
ergodic Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 Before giving up, you might double-check your replacement capacitor polarity. It's easier to get wrong than you might guess. The board has + marked for each. If you do find one backward, it has to be replaced.
GeorgeRufle Posted September 27, 2014 Posted September 27, 2014 Yes, I have already checked that. They are all in corectly.
danu1964 Posted September 27, 2014 Author Posted September 27, 2014 Yes, I have already checked that. They are all in corectly. Hi George, The fact that the LED is flashing is a good indication that the power supply failure has been fixed as I believe the LED runs off the 5V supply. Time to look into the user manual or troubleshooting guide if there is one. Dan
GeorgeRufle Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Just to update everyone on what I have done so far on my 2413S. I have checked all of the caps and found them all to be installrd correctly. I have measured voltages across the following caps. These voltages persist even after the LED stops blinking. C3 ~ 164 VDC C11 ~ 4.5 VDC C13 ~ 20.5 VDC C7 ~ 20.6 VDC C8 ~ 5.1 VDC When first powered on the LED starts out RED. It then goes GREEN after a short time (maybe 1/2 second). The cycle RED>GREEN repeats 6 times then the LED goes out. My replacement 2413S when first powered on the LED starts out RED then goes GREEN and stays that way. I have an old but working 2412S that when first powered on the LED starts out OFF then goes bright (blueish white) for a short time (maybe 1/2 second). The cycle OFF>BRIGHT repeats 6 times then the LED goes DIM. The manuals describe how to use a working unit but are not very helpful for troubleshooting. At this point I'm not sure what troubleshooting can be done without a schematic. I guess I will have to try and create one, Anyone have any ideas I would love to hear them.
Teken Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 If you hard reset the PLM 3-5 times and the problem persists. It's time to call it a day and if it's still under the two year warranty send it back. It's more than likely your PLM received a much larger voltage spike when one or more capacitors failed, taking out one of the IC chips. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
Brian H Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I believe the cycling Red to Green indicates. The Link Database EEPROM on the Daughter Board is not found. You may want to verify there is 5 volts on the Daughter Board. As it has its own raw (~20V) to 5 volt regulator IC on the Daughter Board. Edited October 4, 2014 by Brian H
GeorgeRufle Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Which daughter board are you refering to? The only other board that is in there is the one that has the ethernet connector on it which by the way I don't currently have attached to the main board.
Brian H Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Yes that is the board I was talking about. Put the daughter board back and then see if the LED is better. It has the link database EEPROM on it along with the RS232 interface chip. I just tested my repaired 2413S with the Daughter Board removed. All I get is a cycle of Red/Green LED pulses. Edited October 4, 2014 by Brian H
GeorgeRufle Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I guess my board or the interface to it is bad. When I connect mine back up the LED still blinks RED/GREEN. If anyone is interested here is some info for the chips on the main board. U7 is "Si4420" data sheet is here http://www.silabs.com/products/wireless/EZRadio/Pages/si442021.aspx U5 is PIC 16F648A data sheet is here http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en010212 U6 is PIC 16F688 data sheet is here http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en010215
GeorgeRufle Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 More information ............ You are correct about the daughter board. If I place a known good daughter board in my nonfunctional 2413S the LED initionally blinks RED but never goes GREEN. If I place either of my daughter boards in my spare (GOOD) 2413S the LED initially blinks RED but then goes GREEN and stays that way. If I press and hold the reset I can get into linking mode as I should. I guess as a previous poster suggested there is more wrong than a few bad capacitators.
Recommended Posts