Controllers vs Responders

[Kevin Connolly]

This question is more a sanity check than anything else.

That said, I've put together a network of Insteon devices by replacing various switches in my house. By trial and error I realized that I could cross link switches utilizing "Scenes". I also found that, although the ISY controller would let me do it, that it was a bad idea to put two switches as a controller of the same scene (I learned this because I did it and one of the scene controllers started to flake out. I actually had to delete the device, reset the device, and readd to to the controller). Now my ISY is set up where each "area" I want to control is given a folder. Within that folder I put the associated devices themselves and a separate scene for each device where it is the controller and the rest of the devices are the responders. I also created a scene where all the devices are responders (I figured that if I use the ISY as the controller for things such as a program, or mobile device (Mobilinc or eK isy) that this would be the best way to accomplish it)

So the question is one of both sanity check and form. Is this the best way to approach multiple input devices controlling a output device?....and on another note, what's up with RemoteLinc? I added it easily as a controller of a scene, but the ISY won't let me add it as a responder. I know it doesn't have a status indication on the device, but it's a little disturbing, strictly from a device coordination aspect, to see a RemoteLinc button have one status in the ISY and all the other associated devices possibly have another status.

[LeeG]

A RemoteLinc is a Controller only device.   The ISY does not allow it to be a Responder as it has no Responder capability.  A Motion Sensor, RemoteLinc2 (now Mini Remote), Hidden Door Sensor are additional examples of Controller only devices.

 

It is normal to assign multiple devices as Controllers in the same Scene.  In a multi switch configuration where switch A and switch B should control the same load they would be assigned as Controllers in the same Scene.  This is the expected way of defining a Scene. 

 

SceneX

SwitchLinc1 - Controller

SwitchLinc2 - Controller 

 

SceneY

SwitchLinc3 - Controller

SwitchLinc4 - Controller 

SwitchLinc5 - Controller

KPL1 button C - Controller

 

SceneZ

RemoteLinc button 3 - Controller

ToggleLinc1 - Controller

[Kevin Connolly]

I initially had set it up that way. I start by replacing a 3 way switch. I put both as controllers. It seemed to all work well. Than I added a RemoteLinc and a KeypadLinc. I put them on the same scene as controllers as well, and that's where things got funky. First the initial Secondary switch got confused and either displayed the wrong status, flashed all the side leds like it wasn't sure it was supposed to be on or off, and I think I even got a red blinking light at the side light base. So I took it off line by deleting it from the ISY. Than the Primary switch started acting up as well. So I took it off line went out for a cup of coffee to rethink my whole approach.

It was during the drive that it came to me that maybe a controller should be a controller and everything else should be a responder. So I reformatted my ISY creating a separate scene for each device and/or button, reset the two devices that were acting up, and reintroduced them to the ISY. So a three device configuration looks like this:

Scene A

Device 1 - Controller

Device 2 - Responder

Device 3 - Responder

 

Scene B

Device 1 - Responder

Device 2 - Controller

Device 3 - Responder

 

Scene C

Device 1 - Responder

Device 2 - Responder

Device 3 - Controller

 

Scene D (for Programs)

Device 1 - Responder

Device 2 - Responder

Device 3 - Responder

 

Doing it this way the devices appear to have settled down. It seemed like the logical thing to do. And so far each devices status reports correctly. I thought I'd ask the question though to guys that have worked much longer with this system than me. Me? I know just enough about programming to screw thing up...and what may seem to work today may get flaky without warning. So I just want to make sure that I've set it up in an acceptable fashion and that I haven't done anything that'd make my system real stupid real quick with the push of a button...being married (and with the ISY as a new addition to the household) the latter is REALLY important. 

Thanks for the advice in advance

[LeeG]

One Scene is all that should be necessary and is the normal way to define the configuration.

 

Scene A

Device 1 - Controller

Device 2 - Controller

Device 3 - Controller

 

When Device 1 is operated Device 2 and Device 3 are functioning as Responders.

When Device 2 is operated Device 1 and Device 3 are functioning as Responders, and so on.

 

It sounds like there are comm problems which have been bypassed using multiple Scenes.  Defining multiple Scenes does not cause an issue beyond adding unnecessary complexity to the maintenance of the system.   

[LeeG]

There are limits to the number of Scenes the ISY supports.   If a large install was set up using unnecessary Scenes the Scene limit could be exceeded when not required.   I would put the Scene back to all Controllers and analyze the symptoms. 

[Kevin Connolly]

I tried to be really thoughtful when setting up the system. I even installed an OutLinc by the door where the ISY is and the spacing between all other devices is no more than 15-20 feet in order to try to maximize on the Dual band and mesh networking. I'm not sure where there might be a comm problem. The problem didn't show up until I added a KeypadLinc and the RemoteLinc to the mix. The new KeypadLinc is all of 10 feet from the OutletLinc mentioned above and when the first SwitchLinc started acting up I was no more than two feet away from it with the RemoteLinc...and both were with 5 feet of the Primary SwitchLinc.

I'm not sure how I'd even go about finding the problem if there is one. If there's some sort of tester that I could use for checking, let me know. 

I have an 994i IR Pro. Out of the 1024 available Devices/Scenes, I'm using 35 broken down as 11 devices, 22 scenes, and 2 programs. My current system functions to control the main areas of my house such as kitchen lighting, hallway lighting, deck lighting, porch lighting, and driveway lighting. Within the ISY I've now created folders for each area (such as "Kitchen Light"). Withing the folders I've placed the associated devices to that area, the specific scenes (labeled by the controlling device), and a program scene labeled with a suffix PGM.

[LeeG]

The event viewer at LEVEL 3 is the tool to use.

 

The Pro version provides the maximum devices/scenes.  If you are happy with what you have stay with it.  

 

What does not make sense is the same comm traffic occurs whether the Controller is talking to the KPL button as a Responder or a Controller.  

[Kevin Connolly]

I'll have to look at the event viewer. I do thank you for your help. From what you described it doesn't make sense the way it was reacting, but it was so I'll have to watch it.

In setting the system up I have had just two isolated issues. This being one. The other was when I went to add a ToggleLinc to the system. It wouldn't add and said that it couldn't find the Insteon engine. The device in question was maybe 12 feet from two LampLincs that are responding fine. I called Smarthome and they walked me through some trouble shooting including resetting the device with no luck. They're sending me a replacement. They said it happens every so often.

I feel like the guy who didn't know he had something terminal until he went to the doctor for something unrelated. Now you have me worried that my house is going to melt down. Haha

[LeeG]

Distance can be misleading because switch boxes and outlet boxes are often on different circuits which could mean even on the opposite 120v leg.  ToggleLincs are powerline only (no Dual Band RF) so physical proximity to a Dual Band LampLinc does not mean much.

 

Because the ISY treats other Controllers in a Scene as Responders comm traffic is the same so I suspect there are intermittent comm issues.  Whether they are analyzed now or when a new problem occurs makes little difference.

[stusviews]

I believe you mean ToggleLincs are powerline only. TriggerLincs (now called Open/Close Sensors) are RF only.

[LeeG]

Thanks Stu.  I changed my post to ToggleLinc which is what the OP has.

[Kevin Connolly]

Lee/Stu:

Thank you both so much for the info. I'll go home tonight and check. I could have sworn though that the ToggleLinc that won't respond is on the same circuit as the two LampLincs I have plugged in. Initially I had plugged one of the LampLincs in the power room bath room directly across from where the initial SwitchLinc went a little bonkers. I only unplugged it after I installed the SwitchLinc and because it was on the same circuit as the hall light where I put the SwitchLinc and directly across the hall. I'll try plugging it back in in that location...can't hurt. If it beefs up the system communication I may have to spring for another SwitchLinc.