stusviews Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Why wait? Turn off power to you HVAC/thermostat as a test. You don't need to power down the whole house. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stu: I did as you suggested! Duh! The program worked perfectly. That problem is solved. I am now considering plugging it into a SwitchLinc so I can turn it off and on, if needed, to update its current state on the ISY and MobiLinc. The above program will then run and reset the mode and setpoint. Messy workaround but it should get the job done. I will set it up and test it tomorrow, Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I implemented very similar housekeeping programs to keep thermostat and ISY in sync for each mode (Heat/Cool/Off) so in effect thermostat mode is controlled by variable and not thermostat button. The only timing issue I've not fully considered is full power outage -- Thermostat will come online first and send information before ISY has rebooted and can process messages. I think ISY display would be off but thermostat would be in correct mode.This is all brute force and I want thermostat to do correct function by responding to a query fully but so be it I guess. Great idea StusViews --- I've got couple ApplianceLincs that I will put on thermostat power supplies and remove their batteries. With proper wait after startup, I will power them off and then back on so thermostat is synchronized with ISY. What does all think? ---Programs now---- Not in Heat Mode as directed by variable contents If $Thermostat_Basement_Mode_Manual_Set is 1 And Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' is not Mode Heat Then Wait 5 minutes Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Mode Heat Wait 20 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' 68° (Heat Setpoint) Wait 30 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Mode Heat Wait 20 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' 68° (Heat Setpoint) Wait 1 minute Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Missed Heat Off If Status 'Basement / Basement:HVAC Heat Controller' is not Off And ( Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat - Heat' is Off ) Then Wait 10 seconds Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Missed Heat On If Status 'Basement / Basement:HVAC Heat Controller' is not On And ( Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat - Heat' is On ) Then Wait 10 seconds Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Thermostat not Responding (but we know query fails so I'll embed the power off/on method) If Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' is not Responding Then Wait 10 minutes Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Query Wait 1 minute Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Query Wait 1 minute Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 What sets the variable? Is the variable integer or state? BTW, that was smokegrub's program. Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 What sets the variable? Is the variable integer or state? BTW, that was smokegrub's program. It is a state variable. I guess smokegrub and I think alike. I had gone extra step of controlling tstat mode via MobiLinc or ISY Console and that I did not trust command to arrive so had included repeats. The point is that after a power failure tstat resumes in correct mode instead of confirmed (mode of off) and if someone changes mode locally it reverts to controlled mode. I did steal the locked in set point from smokegrub's program. Documentation says all settings are stored in eeprom but I don't want to take chance.. Confirmed set points are not stored in eeprom. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 My initial observation about the display correctly showiing the current state following being turned off and repowered seems to have been in error. I have repeated the process and the screen display is erroneous (188). However, the display in MobiLinc is correct. Also, a check of the main shows the correct mode and setpoint. Will pursue this more tomorrow. Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Cant believe I'm working on this tonight. Thank god wife is binge watching a new program on DVR Finally got something that appears to work with one big caveat (maybe specific to my case) -- RF range of Thermostat to Access Point must be in inches once the batteries are removed and running on AC power supply. I've measure voltage at 5.11 vdc on power supply so should be good. Also, only tested a few times so looking for insights. One more note -- I'll be curious what happens at 3am query all. Does anyone think ISY is aware the device is swapping from battery to powered device which could have implications with the way it is handled? Program enabled to run at startup If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Run Program 'HVAC:Basement Sync Thermostat With ISY' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 'HVAC:Basement Sync Thermostat With ISY' If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set 'Basement / Basement:TStat Power Supply' Off Wait 20 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:TStat Power Supply' On Wait 10 Seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Program that runs to force thermostat into Heat Mode If $Thermostat_Basement_Mode_Manual_Set is 1 And Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' is not Mode Heat Then Wait 30 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Mode Heat Wait 5 Seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Query --- Query command required to get mode change above to reflect on ISY and trigger next program and stop this program Wait 10 seconds Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Program to set Heat Mode Set Point If Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' is Mode Heat Then Wait 10 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' 68° (Heat Setpoint) Wait 5 seconds Set 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Program to attempt to correct not responding and report it if still bad If Status 'Basement / Basement:Thermostat' is not Responding Then Wait 15 seconds Run Program 'HVAC:Basement Sync Thermostat With ISY' (Then Path) Wait 1 minute Send Notification to 'JPaulText' content 'HVAC Wireless Issue' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 As suspected (but can't confirm why), the current temp was blank this morning with only known activity being 3am query all. In addition, couple more tests show after power cycle of thermostat revealed that ISY was somethimes not seeing Mode of OFF so I added a Wait and Query as seen above in green. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This morning mine displayed properly on the device, in ISY and on MobiLinc. Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I can't get consistent results so I'm going to contact SH. After installing their specified power supply. Their Doc states that in wired mode it should not be providing these results. Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 hart2hart, do you have a Hub or any PLMs other than the one you're using for the ISY? Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 No, Just new version of PLM attached to ISY. I've switched back to using local scenes but in future knowing the cool set point has been reached is not enough. I need to be able to track critical temperature which are higher. I will install SH power supplies so it's not first issue of discussion.. For background, ... I've got a small av closet. When cool set point is reached a scene turns on extra airflow. If temperature continues to rise and gets toward critical., I will turn entire rack off with on/0ff module. I've been off for holidays and putting in HA investment time since I Don't have time to work on this at other times of year. Thanks for you help. At this point I'm concerned this is not right solution. It looked like when plugged in 2441zth reported temp at some rate of change or worst case I could have started querying every 15 minutes once it got to cool set point. At this point current temp is almost never there. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I would humbly suggest you abandon this solution and pursue a tried and true method via 1-wire. Using programs you can monitor and set temperature state and then activate a Insteon device to cool, heat, shut down. The benefit of going this route is no lag, 100% on time, and no batteries to change or RF / power line to worry about. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Teken: I may try 1-wire out but was just thinking I still have Venstar T1800 thermostats (thought I'd find them a good home with need for full HVAC control) with later version adapters. Am I missing something or could they be used with a 24VAC? power supply and all other leads unconnected? Paul Edit. Already have video recording PC (Run io_guys great xxxLink programs there) so going to focus on adding 1-wire since he already has program in place. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Teken: I may try 1-wire out but was just thinking I still have Venstar T1800 thermostats (thought I'd find them a good home with need for full HVAC control) with later version adapters. Am I missing something or could they be used with a 24VAC? power supply and all other leads unconnected? Paul Hello Paul, You can absolutely use the Venstar T1800 with just a 24 VAC transformer I do that already with five of them. Back in the day I had this grand plan of deploying remote temp / humidity sensing. I was extremely lucky that someone was selling the units in bulk at blow out prices so I picked up eight of them. Later on I became heavily invested in the Energy Monitoring and reduction goal. With a 5 watt draw, times eight units on line 24/7 that would be a 40 watt vampire draw I wasn't willing to have. So, this led me to researching other methods to monitor and obtain accurate temperatures for the home. After waiting patiently for almost two years I found a 1 wire solution that integrates perfectly with the ISY Series Controller. The benefit is that I was able to expand this system in the future. There are currently 32 1 wire sensor wires deployed in and around the home monitoring all aspects from outside temps, equipment, rooms, HVAC, Water, Plumbing, and Soil. With the excellent help and assistance of our most favored ISY member Xathros I have been able to monitor and do some great programs which monitor, alert, and react to the homes local environment. Running two miles of CAT6 cable is probably not something everyone is able to do if a entire house is finished. But, if you have the ability, time, and patience to even run four cables to an area and utilize a 1 wire network the investment in time and effort will pay for itself for years to come. PROS: Low power, consistent, reliable, expandable, multi purpose install. CONS: Requires running infrastructure wiring in key areas, needs another device (cost) to have 1 wire. Link to comment
hart2hart Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 At least in short term, I'm going to repurpose original T1800 thermostats. I'll probably move to a 1-wire system when time permits again. Thanks to all for the advice. Paul Link to comment
jeffl012 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 This seems to be a persistent problem with the 2441ZTH. I'm having the same issues with all 3 of my thermostats (firmware v.0E). This is unfortunate as I've invested a lot of time and money into these thermostats with the assumption it would work as well as other Insteon products. Hopefully it will be fixed soon. Using a different product like the Venstar 1800 is not an acceptable workaround. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Mine is running and reporting fine using the method I mentioned near the beginning of the thread. Link to comment
jeffl012 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There should be no need to run any special programs (ie: set the mode OFF, then ON), to get it to work. Hopefully, SH will continue to work on these issues as to improve an otherwise unique and promising product. Link to comment
shannong Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The firmware has not been updated on the 2441 thermostats in over 2 years. I wouldn't hold out much hope for that as a resolution. Link to comment
Teken Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The firmware has not been updated on the 2441 thermostats in over 2 years. I wouldn't hold out much hope for that as a resolution. The real problem is, when they do update the firmware it basically leaves those with existing units in the dirt. I've had discussions about why Smartlabs doesn't want to make firmware user doable. But, they should at the very least offer a method to ship it back for a reflash. This is why I avoid key products from Smartlabs because they are not a leader in those areas. ie. TSTAT's, Alarms. Link to comment
paulbates Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The real problem is, when they do update the firmware it basically leaves those with existing units in the dirt. I've had discussions about why Smartlabs doesn't want to make firmware user doable. But, they should at the very least offer a method to ship it back for a reflash. This is why I avoid key products from Smartlabs because they are not a leader in those areas. ie. TSTAT's, Alarms. Its hit or miss on things that are not core HA devices. Many people have great luck with the 2441TH. I had the same problem that Shannon had, but it was 2 years ago and I did not have the same insight or ability to provide electronic filter remediation to a new product I had just purchased. Its either a trip to nowhere, or a trip to Radio Shack ... no wait... The "land locked" firmware makes it hard from a product life cycle perspective. When I had a gen 1 Hub, it needed to be replaced for firmware reasons. It required credit to be held until I returned the old unit. Not going to lie, not a fan of this model Link to comment
Teken Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Its hit or miss on things that are not core HA devices. Many people have great luck with the 2441TH. I had the same problem that Shannon had, but it was 2 years ago and I did not have the same insight or ability to provide electronic filter remediation to a new product I had just purchased. Its either a trip to nowhere, or a trip to Radio Shack ... no wait... The "land locked" firmware makes it hard from a product life cycle perspective. When I had a gen 1 Hub, it needed to be replaced for firmware reasons. It required credit to be held until I returned the old unit. Not going to lie, not a fan of this model To be fair to Smartlabs I do understand why the firmware is not user flashable. It would put the company at too much risk assuming the device was bricked etc. There are many ways to avoid such problem which I detailed out before in another thread. Having said this, it in no way removes the fact many of these Gen 1 products simply need to be avoided for quite awhile. Having consumers be a Beta tester for a public offering is not the way to go. There is little wiggle room when it has to do with ones home etc. There must be a formal process in which a user can ship back their wares for a reflash. This assumes its a firmware issue opposed to a hardware related matter. In many cases the two year warranty period does cover the end user but this is very little solace when there is zero movement to improve the product. I truly feel sorry for those who have lived through this issue with this TSTAT. Its not as bad as the Venstar TSTAT's where the Insteon RF adapter would bombard the power line with endless junk. Link to comment
smokegrub Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There should be no need to run any special programs (ie: set the mode OFF, then ON), to get it to work. Hopefully, SH will continue to work on these issues as to improve an otherwise unique and promising product. I agree, but my programs run w/o me being aware and I now have a product that meets my needs. More importantly, for me, I have ceased "chasing my tail" in a hunt for the perfect thermostat. I Link to comment
shannong Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 While talking to support one of many times, I asked if there had been a recent firmware release that might resolve some of the many reported issues. I was told there had not been another firmware release since the units went into main production some years before. I asked if it was anywhere near the top of the "to do" list for developers that there might be a new version soon. I was also told "no" for that. That was a year ago. That's when I decided to ditch them and get some Zwave tstats instead. I've bee almost problem free since. Link to comment
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