franzmetcalf Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Hi all, I am experiencing a communication failure with my 99i and an exterior device. Some of my exterior lighting comes on, some doesn’t. Admin says "Cannot Communicate with [non-working device name]. Please check connections.” Okay, I tried. I went to the wiki flowchart (http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Troubleshooting_Flowchart#Step_4:_In_the_Admin.2C_is_there_any_device_communication_errors.3F). It told me to do the following: ISY "Query Device" Power cycle offending INSTEON device, ISY query again Okay, I tried to do number one. Results are these: Current State of the device is blank "Query Device Links Table" tells me “Failed reading device link” [-200000/-5] "Query INSTEON Engine" does nothing whatever "Write Updates to Device" just stops at 40%, telling me nothing "Restore Device" does nothing whatever "Advanced" tells me that the device not support PLM communication settings I really have no idea how to do number two that the flowchart advises. I don’t know where the “offending INSTEON device” even is, aside from at the top of my oak tree (and I don’t think the flowchart is asking me to climb up there an power cycle it). The Admin program seems to call it “16.24.0E - (2476D) SwitchLink Dimmer W/Beeper v.38." So is that in the lighting plate/switch by my front door? If so, I don't see how to power cycle it, nor why part of it is working and part not. I feel that the particular device has gone bad and that I just need to locate it, test it, then fix it or replace it. I just don't know what "it" is! Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I would love some advice and I realize I am a total noobie and the answers may be extremely obvious to others. I can only plead that I am not an idiot. I’m ignorant, not stupid, so a few words might steer me in the right direction. Oh, one more thing: I’ve moved the access points to outlets near (but north and south of) where my main electrical panel is located. There were upstairs, far away from it. I don’t know how to test them, though, and can’t seem to find out how. Thanks so much for any help, Franz
oberkc Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I don't know anything about oak trees or why there would be an insteon device at the top of one. If you were to go to smarthome.com and search on that part number (2476D), I would expect that you would find a pretty good description of the type of device. Hopefully, you can identify it by sight. If you take the plate cover off, you should be able to find the insteon address and match it to the XX.XX.XX address shown in the error message. You could even find user manuals describing how to power cycle the device. Most likely, it is to temporarily pull the tab at the bottom of the paddle, then push it back in without depressing it. Given that you have the ISY-99, can I assume this system has been in place for more than a couple of months? Is the part number 2443? While at smarthome.com, download the manuals for these as well. They will describe how to perform any necessary testing and the proper placement. Yours are probably a generation old or more, so you may need to look for manuals for earlier versions. Is the LED white, or some other color? If you have trouble finding the manuals, perhaps I can look them up when I get a chance. Those are the places I would start.
stusviews Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 A 2476D is a SwitchLinc dimmer. Select on "My Lighting" and click on "Type." That will sort your devices numerically. Did you find one or more devices designated 2476D?
franzmetcalf Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks, oberkc and stusviews, for the tips. I've tried a few more things and I've figured out what's wrong. The device by my front door is fine. It's another SwitchLink dimmer that's the problem. I didn't even realize it existed until prompted to look by your replies. Turns out it's in the basement, inside of the transformer that powers some of the exterior lights. It is not getting power. This is why some of the exterior lights work and some do not. There must be another transformer somewhere powering the lights that still work. In any case, the trouble seems to be the transformer itself, as I've verified power is reaching it but seemingly not reaching the SwitchLink dimmer inside it. I'm now taking up the issue with the transformer manufacturer, but I wanted to send my thanks to you for prompting the further investigation that led me to the cause of the problem. Cheers, Franz
stusviews Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Do you mean a transformer for low voltage lighting?
oberkc Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 The switch should not be on transformer power. It should be connected directly to house electrical system. Something seems strange.
franzmetcalf Posted January 18, 2015 Author Posted January 18, 2015 Yes, I do mean the transformer for the low voltage lighting. I can see the cables leading out from it to the great oudoors. As for the system being strange, that is perhaps the case. I didn't design it and the designer never ended up me how it worked. A bit lame on my part; I should have asked for a tour. I'll recheck the transformer and see if the switch really is powered from the transformer or whether it's powered from outside it. I realize the switch is designed to run on 120, not 12. There's a receptable inside the transformer and something is plugged into it, but that cord disappears into the closed part of the transformer, so I don't think it's the switch. It's also possible the switch is actually connected to 120 and is only inside the transformer for convenience. I'll follow its cord and report back. If I can power it on, I can isolate the problem to the transformer or to the switch. Plainly I'd prefer to replace the switch. I wish I could test the transformer, but as seems to make no sound, heat, or light and it only regulates the outdoor lights which depend on the switch to work, I can't tell if the transformer is working.
oberkc Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Many such transformers plug into a standard outlet. Perhaps you can find if and where this one does, as well. If so, temporarily plugging it into an extension cord would verify whether the transformer works. I would not be surprised if that outlet you found inside the transformer is 120V, and controlled from the new-found switchlinc dimmer. By the way, do you see anything on the transformer label that suggests it is dimmable? Most such dimmers, I understand, are NOT dimmable. Perhaps this caused the transformer to fail, or vice versa. I recommend purchasing a voltage tester. These things are mandatory, in my mind, to perform the kind of troubleshooting in which you are engaged. Measure the voltage at that outlet. What does it say? Assuming the switch is wired to household voltage as it should be, you should be able to see it a control it regardless of whether the transformer is working.
franzmetcalf Posted January 18, 2015 Author Posted January 18, 2015 Well, I've got updates. Most important, I've figured out the electrical situation. The SwitchLinc dimmer is upstream within the transformer from the 12 volt aspect. That is, the 120V power comes into the transformer box, goes through the dimmer, then into the workings of the transformer to turn into 12V. This is all as designed, as I can tell from the instructions on the transformer. Though I don't have a voltage tester (and clearly should have one), I tested the power on the wall outlet with a mixer and it seemed fine. I removed the dimmer from the system. I figured I'd test it. Well, plugging the black and red wires into a known good wall outlet yielded nothing. I then pulled off the plate and unscrewed the outlet from the box so that I could touch the wires directly to the electric lines. Still nothing. I believe the dimmer is dead. This would certainly explain my problem. I suppose I could turn off the circuit the transformer is on and rewire the transformer so it's powered on. That, I believe, would turn my lights on, since I think the transformer is always on when it has power and it will do its thing and power on the lights. Oh, btw, the transformer is purpose-built for landscape lighting and, though it's an older model, all the newer models from the manufactuer (Technomagnet) are dimmable. I guess the question is whether I'm testing the dimmer properly. Just sticking the wires into an outlet is pretty crude, but it seems to me it would be effective. Or am I wrong? My knowledge of electrical systems is, as you can tell, practically nonexistent. Thanks for pointers.
franzmetcalf Posted January 18, 2015 Author Posted January 18, 2015 I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post, but I've diagnosed the problem. I went ahead and rewired the transformer. Very easy (aside from getting the darn wires back into their holes which were far in the back of the transformer box). I could hear a faint hum and went outside to see my exterior lights on. Great: I don't have to replace a $400 transformer. So, I figure the dimmer is dead. Looks like the replacement is the 2477D. Is the RF ability a useful addition?
Brian H Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Not all transformers are made to be driven by a triac dimmer. If it does not play nice with the Insteon Dimmer Switch. You can damage the Insteon Switch, the transformer or both. Insteon dimmers are designed for resistive loads like incandescent loads but some transformers are tolerated.
stusviews Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Do not use an Insteon dimmer to power a transformer unless the transformer is especially designed to work with a leading edge dimmer. If it is, then it will be so marked. To do so may destroy the dimmer, the transformer or both. Even if it works at first, there is likely to be damage over a period of time. That's because Insteon dimmers use TRIACS which clip the waveform to achieve dimming. That clipping occurs even at a 100% On-level.
franzmetcalf Posted January 18, 2015 Author Posted January 18, 2015 Thanks, guys, I shall email the manufacturer, to verify the transformer will work with the dimmer! If it doesn't, that might explain the fact the system has failed.
larryllix Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 If the transformer has a resistive load on the secondary the nature of that load will be reflected back to the dimmer and all should play well. If the transformer doesn't have enough resistive load on the secondary, the load on the dimmer will become very inductive (winding only = bad power factor) and this could damage the dimmer quite quickly.
franzmetcalf Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 The manufacturer wrote back saying "All technomagnet transformers in production as of today are all MLV and require that the dimmer be rated MLV per UL. I hope this is helpful." Well, it wasn't entirely helpful, but I learned that MLV means my big ol' toroidal transformer is magnetic and thus designed to work with leading edge TRIAC dimmers like SwitchLinc models. So I think we're good. I just have to locate an old 2476D or buy a new 2477D. The 2477D will work with my existing system, right? I just adds the RF communication ability, I think.
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