Strange behaviour with scenes & keypadlinc

[alexmanning]

Hi,

 

I've recently been setting up some scenes for my living room to provide a little mood lighting depending on the situation. I have a dimmerlinc and a 5 button keypad dimmerlinc in a double gang box, another dimmerlinc 2 metres from this and micro on/off about 3.5 metres away.

 

 

I've created 2 scenes 'Livingroom_Reading' & 'Livingroom_Cosy' that both use all 4 responders, at various on levels, using buttons 'A' and 'B' no the keypadlinc. All buttons are set to 'non-toggle' as I want a press of each to switch to that scene on only so I can eventually setup another scene for the 'off' button that turns off all of the lights.

 

Both scenes work when I control them using ISY or mobilinc, I can turn them on and off as required and they hit the required on levels.

 

When I use mobilinc to turn the keypad buttons on and off then button 'B' works correctly but button 'A' doesn't.

 

When I use the keypadlinc buttons neither will turn the scenes on but both will turn the scene off if I've switched them on using ISY or mobilinc.

 

If I change the buttons to 'toggle on/off' then they will control the scenes but then I end up with this awkward arrangement where if I want to change scenes sometimes the buttons will switch the lights on and sometimes they'll turn them off, depending on if they've been pressed before.

 

I'd very much appreciate some advice here about what is going on!

Cheers

 

 

[larryllix]

Post your handler programs here. Right click on them and select "copy to clipboard". Paste here.

[alexmanning]

Hi Larry, I'm not using any programs. This is all created using scenes.

 

I've attached a photo of the scene. Let me know I can provide anything else.

Screenshot attached

[larryllix]

Since I have no keypadlincs I cannot help with this situation. Some real KPL gurus are here.

[oberkc]

A couple of thoughts....

 

Most controllers will only act as controller when acted upon directly (pressing the button or paddle). Controlled from mobilinc, a device will not act as scene controller.

 

Second, in the scene definition, choose one of the misbehaving controller and check the responder levels for this controller. They can be different cor each controller.

[alexmanning]

Oberkc,

 

I thought exactly the same - that the on levels might be wrong for the keypad but I double checked and they are showing in ISY as having copied across properly form the scene (see attached).

 

Any other ideas?

[Jimbo.Automates]

Both buttons should be in both scenes, a controller of the scene, and a responder of the other scene. Then in the scene where they are a responder set their on level to zero. This is called a mutually exclusive scene.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

The fact that both buttons, when turning them off, also turn off the scene makes me conclude that they are, in fact, part of the scene.  Given this, if turning the buttons ON do not cause the scene to react, and levels are confirmed good, I would start looking at things such as scene settings did not get written to device.  Have you tried restoring any of the devices in the scene?

 

Comm errors?  Any reason to suspect?  Scene commands are not repeated nor acknowledged, so I assume they can be a little less robust than direct commands.

 

Jimbos thoughts were ones I had earlier.  This would be a way to set up such that pressing button A would cause button B to extinguish.  Depending on the level of control and options you desire from Mobilinc, you could actually do all this via a single scene.

[Jimbo.Automates]

From the attached picture, button A is not in the cosy scene, and button B is not in the Reading scene. So add them as responders with on level at zero for the opposite controller.

 

For mobilinc to work properly you have to also set the desired on level when the scene is selected since mobilinc controls the scene not the KPL button.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

To follow up with Jimbos comments....

 

You mentioned you have your buttons in NON-TOGGLE mode.  Are they in non-toggle ON, or OFF? 

 

In the end, what I assume you want is as Jimbo suggests.  Both buttons in both scenes.  Button A will be responder only to button B, and button B responder only to button A.  On levels will be zero.  Button A and B should be set to Non-toggle ON mode.  Pressing button A would turn on scene A and turn off button B.  Pressing button B will turn ON scene B and turn OFF button B.  You will need a third scene to turn OFF everything.  Depending on whether you want this button lit or not, it would be set to non-toggle ON, or OFF.  You may need to include this button as responder in the scenes A and B.  You will also need to include buttons A and B as responder in scene C. 

[alexmanning]

Hi Jimbo, Oberkc,

 

Great point, thanks. I've re-setup the as a single scene with each keypad button as a controller and then set the on level for the other buttons to zero. Seems like a work around to get around the fact that the 'non-toggle' mode for the buttons doesn't work with scenes but at least it is now working how I want.

 

I am also getting this other problem now where I'll press a button for a scene, it will change to the on levels I've chosen but 3-4 seconds later 1 or 2 of the lights will sometimes turn to full brightness! It doesn't happen every time, so troubleshooting is a nightmare. It also seems to mostly happen to the keypadlinc dimmer and the other dimmer next to it.

 

Any ideas on this one?

[oberkc]

Non toggle DOES work with scenes.  I use it in a couple of mine.  Unfortunately, you can only define a button in non-toggle mode as always turn on, or always turn off.  But...the scene WILL respond.

 

Regarding your new problem, the only thing I can think to do would be check your program log to see if there is some other program that is responding for some reason.  The scene definition would not do this.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I have had strange things happen a couple times when playing around with different ways to control scenes. Try a a restore device for the KPLs that are acting weird. Also if you never factory reset them before installing, I would recommend that and then restore device. I have had a new device act weird before, presumably because it had bad links from factory testing.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

Further thoughts...

 

controlling all this from a single scene is an efficient approach, in my mind.  You mentioned trying to control these scenes via mobilinc, however.  If you want to be able to choose any of the responder level options from mobilinc, you may need to keep this in multiple scenes.  The only way to control a scene via mobilinc is through the scene level.  Controlling a scene controller via mobilinc will not initiate the scene.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Completely agree. That is why I keep them as separate scenes, so they can be controlled easily from mobilinc.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[alexmanning]

Oberkc, I've realised I've been a bit of a muppet. I was setting the non-toggle mode to 'off'. Now I've get it to 'on' all of my separate scenes are working fine! Much better to be able to control in mobilinc too.

 

I'm still sporadically getting this weird gremlin though.. every now an then I choose scene 'A' or 'B' and the lights will change correctly at first, then about 3 seconds later certain lights will just suddenly turn fully on. What's interesting is that when they turn fully on they do so at the scene ramp rate (2 seconds). I haven't used this ramp rate for anything else.

 

I was wondering if the problem might be that I'm including 'Keypad main' in each scene. This is a dimmer but is also controlled by the keypadlinc on & off button. In scenes 'A' and 'B' I'm setting 'keypad main' to 60% and 40% on, and then 3 seconds later it turns 100% on (which is the on level of my 'all on' scene for which 'keypad main' is the controller. Is there some way that scene 'A' is triggering scene 'all on' when it adjusts 'keypad main' to 40 or 60%?

[oberkc]

I am not sure that I follow the trail here, but scene commands don't propogate beyond the original.  If button x is controller for button y, which is controller for button z, pressing button x does not cause scene y or z to initiate.  If 'keypad main' is controlling a load that you want to come on, then is MUST be in the scene definition, as responder.  Being triggered by buttons A or B will not cause the main scene to come on.  That is not the way insteon works.  BTW, this is the same reason why directly controlling button A or B from mobilinc will not cause their respective scenes to come on.

 

I remain suspicious of a rogue program somewhere.  As suggested earlier, I would watch the program listing and see if any program responds to presses of buttons A or B.  If so, review that program content to see if that explains the strange behavior.