GaryK4 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I just installed my first togglelinc and it is very unreliable. I am trying to trigger a porch light with a MS. At time it goes on, but will not turn off. Querying the device always returns the correct status. The below event log is a result of: request off - failed query - OK request off - failed I'm not sure what else is on this circuit. Hall light and kitchen lights and ??? Are SwitchLincs more reliable (Dual Band)? I don't really need or want a dimmer. Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:21 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 64 86 0F 13 00 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:21 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.64.86 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:25 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [ERR] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:25 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] ERR 1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 64 86 0F 19 00 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.64.86 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.64.86 30.6A.C6 2B 10 FF ID-REQ (FF) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.64.86-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [ERR] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] ERR 0 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] ST 255 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [OL] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] OL 255 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [RR] [28] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] RR 28 Tue 01/20/2015 10:56:08 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 64 86 0F 13 00 Tue 01/20/2015 10:56:08 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.64.86 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 01/20/2015 10:56:11 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [33 64 86 1] [ERR] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Tue 01/20/2015 10:56:11 AM : [ 33 64 86 1] ERR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Sounds like a load issue, what is the load? Note the toggle linc is not dual band so proper coupling of the the Insteon network is critical for a robust and reliable system. How many dual band devices do you own and have you confirmed the coupling / bridging via the 4 tap (beacon) test outlined by the full users manuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Doesn't make sense to me that it would respond perfectly well to a query while on but not respond to a DOF. If it were a load causing comm issues, this should affect the query as well. I would try a factory reset of the TL then a restore device on the TL. See if that helps any. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The Query did produce the correct result but there was a delay of at least 1 second (maybe 2) in getting the response. Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 64 86 0F 19 00 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.64.86 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.64.86 30.6A.C6 2B 10 FF ID-REQ (FF) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.64.86-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 There is some issue either with the ToggleLinc itself, its load or comm. The factory reset and restore is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks Lee. With the absence of a fail on the query, I didn't even think to look at the timing... -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Sounds like a load issue, what is the load? Note the toggle linc is not dual band so proper coupling of the the Insteon network is critical for a robust and reliable system. How many dual band devices do you own and have you confirmed the coupling / bridging via the 4 tap (beacon) test outlined by the full users manuals? I am not an electrician, just general knowledge. It is an 15 amp circuit. to my knowledge, no lights were on during the testing, so the load should be very low. The full manual for the toggle linc does not have "coupling / bridging via the 4 tap (beacon) test". Where do I find this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am not an electrician, just general knowledge. It is an 15 amp circuit. to my knowledge, no lights were on during the testing, so the load should be very low. The full manual for the toggle linc does not have "coupling / bridging via the 4 tap (beacon) test". Where do I find this? What Teken means is what TYPE of load is the TL controlling? CFL, LED, Incandescent ? Some loads like CFL's and some LED's can cause noise or absorb Insteon signal preventing reliable comms once the load is powered. This typically shows up as the ability to turn a switch on remotely but not off. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 The Query did produce the correct result but there was a delay of at least 1 second (maybe 2) in getting the response. Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 33 64 86 0F 19 00 Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:35 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 33.64.86 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 33.64.86 30.6A.C6 2B 10 FF ID-REQ (FF) Tue 01/20/2015 10:55:37 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 33.64.86-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 There is some issue either with the ToggleLinc itself, its load or comm. The factory reset and restore is a good idea. I did the factory reset and it did not help. I have (3) more ToggleLinc, so I will try another one. However, I can't do it until later today. I will feedback then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am not an electrician, just general knowledge. It is an 15 amp circuit. to my knowledge, no lights were on during the testing, so the load should be very low. The full manual for the toggle linc does not have "coupling / bridging via the 4 tap (beacon) test". Where do I find this? What Teken means is what TYPE of load is the TL controlling? CFL, LED, Incandescent ? Some loads like CFL's and some LED's can cause noise or absorb Insteon signal preventing reliable comms once the load is powered. This typically shows up as the ability to turn a switch on remotely but not off. -Xathros Thank you, this is what I meant. My apologies for not expanding on my thought process as I was doing this via mobile phone. The key thing is to let us know how many dual band devices you have at home. One of those dual band devices will have information about confirming the coupling / bridging of the single split phase electrical system in your home and the steps to complete said steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 What Teken means is what TYPE of load is the TL controlling? CFL, LED, Incandescent ? Some loads like CFL's and some LED's can cause noise or absorb Insteon signal preventing reliable comms once the load is powered. This typically shows up as the ability to turn a switch on remotely but not off. -Xathros Oh. Porch and hall are Incandescent. Kitchen is Incandescent and LED. With all lights OFF, I can not turn them on - communication error. I assume an off LED should not create noise - correct? With Incandescent being obsolete isn't LED going to be a problem for Insteon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Oh. Porch and hall are Incandescent. Kitchen is Incandescent and LED. With all lights OFF, I can not turn them on - communication error. I assume an off LED should not create noise - correct? With Incandescent being obsolete isn't LED going to be a problem for Insteon? No. Most LED's I have tested work fine. Some older/early ones had problematic power supplies. Sounds to me like just plain poor comms now. I think Teken is on the right track with confirming your phase bridge as the next step. -Xathros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thank you, this is what I meant. My apologies for not expanding on my thought process as I was doing this via mobile phone. The key thing is to let us know how many dual band devices you have at home. One of those dual band devices will have information about confirming the coupling / bridging of the single split phase electrical system in your home and the steps to complete said steps. Dual band devices installed. (2) 2334-2 Keypads (1) 2477D SwitchLinc (2) 2450 IOLinc (garage doors) (2) 2842-222 MS (1) Insteon LED - don't think it is dual band ---- Not installed yet -------- (3) 2450 IOLinc I will thy to find the phase bridging later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Dual band devices installed. (2) 2334-2 Keypads (1) 2477D SwitchLinc (2) 2450 IOLinc (garage doors) (2) 2842-222 MS (1) Insteon LED - don't think it is dual band ---- Not installed yet -------- (3) 2450 IOLinc I will thy to find the phase bridging later today. It appears you only have two dual band devices which are the KPL's. The rest are single band so those can't couple / bridge the network in your home. Perform the 4 tap (beacon) test when you get home on the KPL's. Since Smartlabs insists upon providing piss poor e-docs. You will need to follow the instructions on page 17 from the KPL Relay located here: http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2487s.pdf NOTE: You will need to tap the set button at the bottom extremely fast with a small tool. Using your finger will cause nothing but frustration in trying to accomplish this task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 It appears you only have two dual band devices which are the KPL's. The rest are single band so those can't couple / bridge the network in your home. Perform the 4 tap (beacon) test when you get home on the KPL's. Since Smartlabs insists upon providing piss poor e-docs. You will need to follow the instructions on page 17 from the KPL Relay located here: http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2487s.pdf NOTE: You will need to tap the set button at the bottom extremely fast with a small tool. Using your finger will cause nothing but frustration in trying to accomplish this task. On the SmartHome site, it says SwitchLinc 2477D is a Dual Band device also. In any event, I replaced the ToggleLinc with another on and get the same results. Any suggestions what I should try next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 On the SmartHome site, it says SwitchLinc 2477D is a Dual Band device also. In any event, I replaced the ToggleLinc with another on and get the same results. Any suggestions what I should try next? Yes, I was merely indicating that the 2477D manual omits all references to performing the 4 tap (beacon) test. This is why I provided the other manual from the relay for your viewing. What are the results of the 4 tap test performed on the two KPL's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, I was merely indicating that the 2477D manual omits all references to performing the 4 tap (beacon) test. This is why I provided the other manual from the relay for your viewing. What are the results of the 4 tap test performed on the two KPL's? Currently, both KPL's are in the same room. When I did the test, The second Tabletop KPL blinked red.I carried the second KPL to an outlet near the togglelinc and it blinked red. The first KPL and the ISY Hub are in the bonus room and appear to be on a different phase. Is there anything else I need to do for bridging? Next I tried turning the togglelinc on and off many times. On seems to work most of the time. Off rarely works - it takes 2-5 tries. What now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Currently, both KPL's are in the same room. When I did the test, The second Tabletop KPL blinked red.I carried the second KPL to an outlet near the togglelinc and it blinked red. The first KPL and the ISY Hub are in the bonus room and appear to be on a different phase. Is there anything else I need to do for bridging? Next I tried turning the togglelinc on and off many times. On seems to work most of the time. Off rarely works - it takes 2-5 tries. What now? You need to move the KPL to any other other outlet until it blinks green. Red means the same phase, green means (coupling / bridging opposite phase). Until this is done you will NOT have consistent and reliable Insteon COM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 You need to move the KPL to any other other outlet until it blinks green. Red means the same phase, green means (coupling / bridging opposite phase). Until this is done you will NOT have consistent and reliable Insteon COM's. I understand, but I have a slight logistics problem. I need the (2) KPL's in the bonus / media room. One at the entrance and one at the chair. Therefore I assume that I need to buy another KPL and put it on a green circuit. Can I use a SwitchLinc and just ignore the dimmer or does it need to be a KPL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I understand, but I have a slight logistics problem. I need the (2) KPL's in the bonus / media room. One at the entrance and one at the chair. Therefore I assume that I need to buy another KPL and put it on a green circuit. Can I use a SwitchLinc and just ignore the dimmer or does it need to be a KPL? You can purchase any dual band unit and it assumes that circuit is on the opposite phase. For now all we are trying to do is confirm coupling and leave it there for a few moments. Once you confirm a (green) coupled Insteon network. I suspect one of two things will happen. It will either work reliably or there will be no change. If the KPL is left on the (green) coupled outlet and you still see problem(s) there is noise on the line. Easily identified (loosely speaking) just unscrew the LED / CFL bulbs and place a incandescent and report back your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Next I tried turning the togglelinc on and off many times. On seems to work most of the time. Off rarely works - it takes 2-5 tries. Being able to turn a device on but not off is an indication of an inappropriate load for the particular device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can also get a Range Extender module. It is a plug in device and can be moved around to find a spot where it couples the modules. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2992-222-range-extender.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can also get a Range Extender module. It is a plug in device and can be moved around to find a spot where it couples the modules. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2992-222-range-extender.html That sounds like the way to go for me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryK4 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can purchase any dual band unit and it assumes that circuit is on the opposite phase. For now all we are trying to do is confirm coupling and leave it there for a few moments. Once you confirm a (green) coupled Insteon network. I suspect one of two things will happen. It will either work reliably or there will be no change. If the KPL is left on the (green) coupled outlet and you still see problem(s) there is noise on the line. Easily identified (loosely speaking) just unscrew the LED / CFL bulbs and place a incandescent and report back your results. I put my tabletop KPL in the area and tested the communications. Tried on/off about 30 times with no failures and no time difference between command and result. Ordered (2) range extenders. Thanks for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I put my tabletop KPL in the area and tested the communications. Tried on/off about 30 times with no failures and no time difference between command and result. Ordered (2) range extenders. Thanks for all the help! I would suggest you order two lamp lincs instead. This will allow you to have dual use. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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