Monitoring Temperature In A Refrigerator

[smokegrub]

I have a Whirlpool upright refrigerator/freezer that occasionally ices up somewhere internally and fails to cool. That can be remedied by removing the food and leaving the refrigerator doors open for about 12 hours. Just a nuisance, except when we are are away from home. Then, if I were alerted to such a failure I could have local family take care of the problem.

 

I have used an Insteon Wireless Thermostat at a remote location to monitor temperatures to ensure the heating system had not failed. It is the battery model to which I have added a power supply. That model thermostat has an external probe capability that appears it might work well with my refrigerator. My questions are: Has anyone used this device in the same or similar manner? If so, how did you install the probe in the refigerator?

[Mike Ippolito]

I attempted this with a qubino z-wave temperature sensor / relay board I was testing.  As long as you don't care that 99% of these devices are not calibrated you can use it. In your instance it appears you'd be fine with several degrees off as you're looking for gross changes in temperature. I was attempting to remotely monitor my sous vide cooker and found it several degrees centigrade off, which was not ideal. 

 

You might want to throw a power meter on that refrigerator, if indeed it is freezing up, it might be costing you more in energy than buying a new one! 

[smokegrub]

Thanks for the feedback. You are correct, I am looking for gross changes in temperature. As to power issues, I don't think that is a problem. Do you have a suggestion as to how to install the sensor?

[Teken]

Correct me if I am wrong but that TSTAT has no method to measure negative values? I know we discussed this in another thread but for the long term you should be considering a 1 wire solution. 

 

The time and invested dollars simply just makes sense from a long term use case. Anything else that is going to be kludged together will result in lots of fine tuning, errors, and endless trials.

 

Everything you have done or have considered I went down that road. 

 

The only difference is that I took to heart all of the information I found in this forum and others and decided not to use Insteon for such critical environmental monitoring tasks.

 

It goes with out saying this is well outside of the range the Smartlabs engineers even considered.

[Techman]

smokegrub,

 

There should be a drain line/hole at the bottom of the freezer compartment, check to make sure it's not clogged.

 

You should also check the defrost timer, and also make sure your door gaskets have a good seal and are not letting air inside the compartments

[stusviews]

A refrigerator that ices up is defective. The correct solution is to repair or replace it. Anything short of that is a band-aid until it gets worse. BTW, you may only need a minor repair such as a temperature regulator.

[Teken]

I would add to the excellent information from those above the following:

 

1. Measure and adjust the freezer / cooler compartment with a calibrated NSF thermometer. The cooler area should be in the range of 34-40'F, freezer should be no colder than 0'F.

 

2. Ensure all coils and vents are free of debris and fuzz build up.

 

3. Remove all contents from the freezer / cooler area and ensure the air flow vents are clean and unobstructed.

 

4. Ensure the unit has the proper air ventilation on all three sides.

 

5. Check all gaskets and seals to ensure the door closes tight. Some use magnet seals while other simply have friction fit seals. Always pull the gasket to ensure they are not cracked inside the channels.

 

If you are like me where kids are always going into the freezer and not closing the door properly and the door is allowed to creep open. These great locks work fantastic in keeping it closed and locked in place.

 

 

This is what happens when any of the situation happens. Hot food inserted into cooler before its properly cooled off, door ajar, leaking gasket, blocked air way, clogged vents and intake grills, evap coils / condensors damaged or dirty.

 

You can see my fridge was running none stop and then went into defrost mode then ran for ever again.

 

This is what a normal day looks like when things are properly set and running fine.

 

 

This is one of many ways I know if the appliances in my home are running fine and for how long. There is no guessing as to *IF* anything is running too long, too short, or consuming too much power. This is a *Day Compare* of the fridge running.

 

As you can see the (frequency) of the unit running and the duration of such. My fridge goes into defrost mode every three days and does so one time and operates in this mode for about 18 minutes.

 

 

Lots of people like to guess about how much an appliance costs them or if its Energy Star rated. I don't guess I know what every device in my home consumes and have fine tuned each device to operate efficiently.

 

This is just one day as you can see on this day the fridge consumed 0.86 KWH or $0.06266 which was 4.9% of my daily energy consumption.

 

 

Having the ability to watch the inrush current or start up of a device is imperative. This will let you know how to manage your power distribution and build for it. This assumes you have a off grid system or where you have a small back up generator.

 

This lets you know if the back up power is sufficient to power this high draw items like motors, pumps, compressors, etc. As can be seen when the fridge first kicks in its consumes a whopping 300+ watts and more than 16 amps, until it settles down.

 

[arw01]

where do you get the locks Teken?  I have 2 that could use those!

 

And the comment on using electricity, maybe if you are in the .20 to .30 per Kwh range it might.  I measured my 16+ year old fridge and even if it was free, the new one would take 20 years to pay for itself. I think the notion new ones use less electricity and pay for themselves is nothing but marketing BS.

 

I have an even older refrigerator that costs 1.78 a month to run.

 

Alan

[Teken]

where do you get the locks Teken?  I have 2 that could use those!

 

And the comment on using electricity, maybe if you are in the .20 to .30 per Kwh range it might.  I measured my 16+ year old fridge and even if it was free, the new one would take 20 years to pay for itself. I think the notion new ones use less electricity and pay for themselves is nothing but marketing BS.

 

I have an even older refrigerator that costs 1.78 a month to run.

 

Alan

 

Hello Alan,

 

You can find this awesome lock at your local Ikea store in the baby section. I don't follow what you mean about marketing BS? Are you suggesting a brand new Energy Star rated appliance consumes the same amount of electricity as a 16 year old fridge / freezer??

[smokegrub]

Thanks for the amazing feedback! I will be checking everything out carefully.

 

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I should place the remote sensor into the refrigerator portion?

[Teken]

Thanks for the amazing feedback! I will be checking everything out carefully.

 

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I should place the remote sensor into the refrigerator portion?

 

I would probably see if you could take a small thin piece of wire and push it through a vent and see if it comes out the back or bottom of the unit as a quick test.

 

Drilling holes into a fridge / freezer is a recipe for disaster. Don't even think about cutting the door gasket either!

[stusviews]

A major goal of energy efficient products it to reduce our reliance on limited resources. If you can save money, too, then that's great.

 

It takes 15 or 20 years to pay for an energy efficient bulb. Hmm, how many gallons of gas does an electric car cost?

[Teken]

A major goal of energy efficient products it to reduce our reliance on limited resources. If you can save money, too, then that's great.

 

It takes 15 or 20 years to pay for an energy efficient bulb. Hmm, how many gallons of gas does an electric car cost?

 

I think if you consider the ROI as the main factor lots of this will probably not pay off in any meaningful time frame. Speaking solely for myself I researched and purchased the best appliances I could afford in the budget I set forth. Obviously long term savings in terms of energy costs were the over all goal.

 

But, if someone says to me *You know its going to take 25 years for you to see the ROI* people are missing the key driver of doing this. I know lots of people who consume 5-10 times more electricity just from their fridge when compared to mine.

 

Are the two units comparable in size, features, age, no.

 

But the reality is with the new Energy Star ratings which have been modified for 2015. If you purchase said appliance with the new 2015 Energy Star rating it will not only meet this rating. More than likely it will exceed the rating and be lower in energy consumption.

 

This is exactly how my fridge worked out when compared to the yellow placard.

[shannong]

Of course there's the obvious but not so elegant Insteon solution using an IOLinc with various probes such as these.  http://www.smarthome.com/minotaur-engineering-ivt2-variable-temperature-sensor.html   http://www.smarthome.com/i-o-linc-insteon-high-and-low-temperature-threshold-kit.html   http://www.smarthome.com/i-o-linc-insteon-freezer-failure-sensor-kit.html

 

I have an Elk security system and started off with a similar sensor attached to one of my wireless door sensors that also had a contact sensor inside. However, I've since switched to a dedicated wireless device for my security system designed specifically for detecting temperatures above freezing.

 

For routing the probe wire I drilled a hole through the back of my fridges. I removed the cover on the inside compartment so I could see where all the coils,wires, boards, etc are inside. Just a few small hex bolts. The hardest part was just getting the darn shelves/drawers out. Then I drilled 1/4" hole to accommodate the probe head. The head is much larger than the wire so that left a hole with a gap. That I filled with water based expansion foam from behind to create an air tight and insulated seal. 

 

I agree with others who said your fridge is not working properly and could likely be fixed for sub-$200. I'd still get a sensor though since failure is inevitable regardless of the state of the fridge or via power outage.

 

It's worth noting that residential freezers don't maintain temperature well. I was getting false alarms at first. I got a digital thermometer to put in both freezers. They both fluctuated about 8-10 degrees during the cycling process. I put a wait timer on my program that sends alerts to avoid false positives.

[smokegrub]

Thanks.

[Robert Davis]

It is not a risky task to install a wireless thermostat. First we have to remove the old thermostat and the existing mounting plate. Then after disconnecting the wiring connect the new wires and. finally install the new mounting plate and thermostat. But in your case , I think replacement is a better idea. Otherwise it may consume your valuable time and money again and again. If possible sell it and buy a new one from a reliable showroom and please take care about the brand too.  The one I bought before 2 years from Best Brand Appliance in Canada is still working well.  

[Scottmichaelj]

If you want something simpler you could look into the Wireless Tags by CAO here -> http://wirelesstag.net

 

Toss a small tile in the fridge and freezer and then using the API send yourself a notification when it hits the set point you want. It will also data log for you. Just another idea.

[Teken]

If you want something simpler you could look into the Wireless Tags by CAO here -> http://wirelesstag.net

 

Toss a small tile in the fridge and freezer and then using the API send yourself a notification when it hits the set point you want. It will also data log for you. Just another idea.

 

I would love a walk through and a simple step by step guide to the above. Along with real world experience about how it operates in a freezer environment.

[Scottmichaelj]

I would love a walk through and a simple step by step guide to the above. Along with real world experience about how it operates in a freezer environment.

I got my tags last week and I am working on a small project with them and my remote control system at the moment. Once that is complete then I will do a real world analysis of them. I do know I am not the only one with these, Larry uses them too and then there is this thread:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17232-wireless-sensor-tags/?hl=%2Bwireless+%2Btags

[Teken]

I got my tags last week and I am working on a small project with them and my remote control system at the moment. Once that is complete then I will do a real world analysis of them. I do know I am not the only one with these, Larry uses them too and then there is this thread:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17232-wireless-sensor-tags/?hl=%2Bwireless+%2Btags

 

Nice, looks to me some reading is in store for me this week. I would still like to read from you what the real world experience is in your environment is. As I was asked about these devices from another friend who needs a wireless solution but must have high accuracy and RF distance.

 

Bottom line looking for me is reading first bullet points of all the good, bad, and ugly. Then reading about what the limitations are with respect to local vs cloud etc. You offered some fantastic insight in a related thread and that was the TSTAT comparisons many of us were interested in.

 

I believe you share like minds in offering *critical thinking* of what a product can and can't do. As you're probably aware I'm not after hearing about the fluff but want the facts with real world testing to prove it out. I've been burned too many times in offering suggestions to others about new tech or the next big cloud service(s).

 

So would rather learn from others who have them before I even consider suggesting this device to my friend. 

[MWareman]

If you want something simpler you could look into the Wireless Tags by CAO here -> http://wirelesstag.net

 

Toss a small tile in the fridge and freezer and then using the API send yourself a notification when it hits the set point you want. It will also data log for you. Just another idea.

I've been doing this for the last year - it continues to work well for me.

[larryllix]

I have a Whirlpool upright refrigerator/freezer that occasionally ices up somewhere internally and fails to cool. That can be remedied by removing the food and leaving the refrigerator doors open for about 12 hours. Just a nuisance, except when we are are away from home. Then, if I were alerted to such a failure I could have local family take care of the problem.

 

I have used an Insteon Wireless Thermostat at a remote location to monitor temperatures to ensure the heating system had not failed. It is the battery model to which I have added a power supply. That model thermostat has an external probe capability that appears it might work well with my refrigerator. My questions are: Has anyone used this device in the same or similar manner? If so, how did you install the probe in the refigerator?

95% of these problems are solved with a vacuum cleaner to clean the filters at the bottom where the frost free drip pan and cooling coils are found. This happens to commercial A/C also. Block  the air, the humidity builds up on everything.

 

The CAO Tags are awesome and so easy to use..

 

Here is my two tags reported on one chart. IIRC the sample time was every 15 minutes.

Also ISY is aware of their temperature, humidity, X, Y, Z angles, movement, and battery  level to 0.001 volts.

 

I put one in a sealed cookie tin box about 30 feet from the manager and could not simulate  signal lost condition. The signal went to -99 dBm but still has a lot of headroom to be reliable.

The power strength and all parameters are adjustable.

The Pro version keeps thousands of samples that "catch-up" should the comms be lost temporarily and is accurate to 0.4C.  All parameters are calibratable if desired,

 

[Teken]

Thanks guys for the feed back and charting visuals as this helps out a lot. As a refresher which part of the system is cloud based vs local?

 

Specifically, if there is no Internet access at the site can the tag manager continue to track the data and also send information? I assume all charting is hosted in this companies cloud portals service. Which I do recall they made a commitment to keep it free for life and also believe Michael indicated that should they ever go under they would release the API as open source.

 

Are the statements made above still true and accurate?

 

Larry, all in how much did this cost to get door to door?

[larryllix]

Thanks guys for the feed back and charting visuals as this helps out a lot. As a refresher which part of the system is cloud based vs local?

 

Specifically, if there is no Internet access at the site can the tag manager continue to track the data and also send information? I assume all charting is hosted in this companies cloud portals service. Which I do recall they made a commitment to keep it free for life and also believe Michael indicated that should they ever go under they would release the API as open source.

 

Are the statements made above still true and accurate?

 

Larry, all in how much did this cost to get door to door?

As previously noted the Tag manager seems to have to check in with the cloud service to do local notifications???? sux!

 

Price? Christmas present but I have noted the prices has jumped massively in the last year or so. CAO seems to be the only ones selling them, even if Google shows SH selling them. There may have been some marketing path flop there.

[smokegrub]

As a side note, I own two Whirlpool uprights and both have the same problem, icing up. The problem is clearly a manufacturing defect but Whirlpool offers no relief unless the refrigerator is under warranty or has a service contract. I purchased a service agreement, waited the required timeframe, and had one of the units serviced (Whirlpool recommended this course of action). The problem was a defective mother board. The unit has had no problems since service. I will do the same for the second this summer. Thanks for the feedback.