dbwarner5 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I have been using Insteon / x10 with an ISY for quite some time. We are planning to build a new house and I am looking to accomplish the following and would enjoy hearing from others your thoughts on the following overall set up and when there is redundancy, which option is best to use. Thanks! Hardware: -Insteon & x10: general light control, some motion detection, thermostat, hot tub temp monitoring, irrigation -Russound: Whole house audio -Elk: Security and ? -Zwave: door handles and ? -ISY994i: overall Integrator of the above -Apple Express as input to Russond -Cameras: TBD Software: -ISY Admin -Elk for initial set up -IOS -Mac OS -Mobilinc User Interfaces: -Insteon Keypads -Wall mounted iPads (2 or 3) -Wall mounted Russound Keypads Vision: Through the use of Network resources (and a RS-232 connection to the Russond), Elk Module, Irrigation Module, let the ISY be the overall master program controller. For convenience, use the Russound keypads in key rooms for direct sound management. For general lighting and AWAY commands etc, use Insteon Keypads by doors, and in the Great room, Kitchen and Master Bedroom have wall mounted iPads running a controlled version of Mobilinc that will give simple and limited access to the Sound system (thru ISY), Cameras, Elk security (thru ISY), plus other general Insteon scenes etc. Plus run the russound app for more detailed sound control plus other general apps like weather etc. Music would reside on a Mac in iTunes, piped to Airport expresses connected to the Russound as inputs using apples Remote app, or from anyones' iPhones via Airplay. Full versions of mobilinc would run on my iPhone and personal iPads for full control as well. Questions: 1) Motion detection: Elk MD are >$100, Insteon are cheaper but perform only ok. are Wired MD ($10) the best way to go and connect them to the Elk, and use the ISY for programing results? 2) Cameras: independent IP cameras seem easy to integrate into the above, but what about whole house DVR systems? Do they integrate into ELK? 3) I have a pole barn ~350ft away from the house, along with an idle ISY99i. What is the best way to add light / MD to this location as it will have its own electrical panel, so i am not sure instead would transmit that far? I might have wifi there, is there a way to utilize my old ISY99i there and have it send signals via wifi to the main ISY for joint activities? 4) Which areas are better to concentrate on the ELK vs Insteon or Zwave hardware? 5) any other thoughts? THANKS! Link to comment
blueman2 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Questions: 1) Motion detection: Elk MD are >$100, Insteon are cheaper but perform only ok. are Wired MD ($10) the best way to go and connect them to the Elk, and use the ISY for programing results? 2) Cameras: independent IP cameras seem easy to integrate into the above, but what about whole house DVR systems? Do they integrate into ELK? 3) I have a pole barn ~350ft away from the house, along with an idle ISY99i. What is the best way to add light / MD to this location as it will have its own electrical panel, so i am not sure instead would transmit that far? I might have wifi there, is there a way to utilize my old ISY99i there and have it send signals via wifi to the main ISY for joint activities? 4) Which areas are better to concentrate on the ELK vs Insteon or Zwave hardware? 5) any other thoughts? THANKS! I empathize with you on this one. I either have or would like to have all of the components you mention. Here is what I have learned so far: 1) I have gone entirely with wired motion detectors, wired into my ELK. I then access their states and run programs based on MDs in ISY because I like the ISY programming language MUCH better than the ELK's. This is the most cost efficient, stable mode of operating IMHO. 2) I have been looking (without success) to find a whole home security DVR system that will provide dry contact relay outputs for things like alarming, motion, etc, so that my ELK and ISY can respond to these inputs. But I have yet to find any video security system that provides either dry contact or 5V/12V output triggering. Maybe something could be done via HTTP talking to ISY, but I am not sure anyone has been successful there either. 3) My brother has this same issue. Surprisingly, we just installed a dual band device and it worked. Not sure if it is using RF or Electrical wires, but it works. And yes, this is probably the ONE area where using an Insteon MD will be required. 4) ELK: all of your door/window sensors should be hard wired. All motion detectors should be hard wired to ELK. All smoke detectors hardwared into ELK. I have my garage door sense and control on my ELK (the Insteon ioLinc solution for garage doors is a kludge). Insteon: For switches, plugs, etc. I do not use motion detectors on ISY unless I have no choice (e.g. your barn) Z-wave: Door Locks, Pool Controller (basically, devices that I wish had good support by Insteon but do not) 5) Other thoughts: I am doing EXACTLY the same setup for iTunes. I like having a dedicated server running iTunes 24x7, and use Remote apps (there is one for Android and IOS) to play my library. And yes, people can still use airplay from their device if they want their own music. Overall, I say good luck with this. Looking forward to what others say. particularly around integrating home video security systems into ELK/ISY. This has been a major issue that needs resolving. Link to comment
jwagner010 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Re: 2 I have a Synology nas with a package called surveillance station that functions as a security dvr that works with nearly all ip camera brands and allows http triggers to be sent to external devices like the isy. Also has a rest api where external devices can control the cameras / dvr. https://www.synology.com/en-us/surveillance/7.0 Link to comment
Scyto Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 If you find a way to control the russound can you let me know. I have a speakercraft and despite having a variety of network modules and eve an iPhone app haven't worked out how to control it.,.. Link to comment
dbwarner5 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Blueman: Thanks for your input. I thought I was going crazy trying to solve all these pieces together. Control4 looks like they have done it and done it well, but its not a DIY application and requires installers to even add devices much less do any programming. Not for me. I will have to wait and see what happens with the pole barn. Will lean your way for what to use the Elk for. And yes, my plans also are to do all programming in the ISY as everything i have read is that the ELK is a bit cumbersome and i am familiar already with ISY. In terms of Garage control I did manage to use i/o Lincs and ISY to accomplish this, but it was quite complex to do it "safely". See my recent post (long, sorry) about 7th down at http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15311-simple-garage-door-setup-wiolinc-keypad-dimmer/. Scyto: I haven't done direct programming to Russound yet, but it appears it can be done in several ways: -IOS App: http://www.russound.com/product_detail.php?i=3277 -Russound in wall controllers: http://www.russound.com/cseries_overview.php -See both above in a youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WekYtpKGkH8 -Add to ISY for programming control thru Resource Manager: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Networking:Network_Resources#Russound_MCA_Series Let me know if you find out anything else! thanks Link to comment
dbwarner5 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Blueman: i more add about the garage doors... this may able to be done thru the Elk module in ISY as well, but one thing i like about having the I/O LInc on the garage doors is that i can also use Moblinc IOS app with Geofencing to "know" when i have arrived back at my home and that in combination to a Motion Detector (insteon), it opens the garage doors for me, depending on what trigger i set when i left, and turn on lights inside if needed etc. Works reasonably well, but often has a long delay from when the MD picks me up until it gets processed, other times, immediately. Link to comment
Harrisrc740 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I have been using Insteon / x10 with an ISY for quite some time. We are planning to build a new house and I am looking to accomplish the following and would enjoy hearing from others your thoughts on the following overall set up and when there is redundancy, which option is best to use. Thanks! Hardware: -Insteon & x10: general light control, some motion detection, thermostat, hot tub temp monitoring, irrigation -Russound: Whole house audio -Elk: Security and ? -Zwave: door handles and ? -ISY994i: overall Integrator of the above -Apple Express as input to Russond -Cameras: TBD Software: -ISY Admin -Elk for initial set up -IOS -Mac OS -Mobilinc User Interfaces: -Insteon Keypads -Wall mounted iPads (2 or 3) -Wall mounted Russound Keypads Vision: Through the use of Network resources (and a RS-232 connection to the Russond), Elk Module, Irrigation Module, let the ISY be the overall master program controller. For convenience, use the Russound keypads in key rooms for direct sound management. For general lighting and AWAY commands etc, use Insteon Keypads by doors, and in the Great room, Kitchen and Master Bedroom have wall mounted iPads running a controlled version of Mobilinc that will give simple and limited access to the Sound system (thru ISY), Cameras, Elk security (thru ISY), plus other general Insteon scenes etc. Plus run the russound app for more detailed sound control plus other general apps like weather etc. Music would reside on a Mac in iTunes, piped to Airport expresses connected to the Russound as inputs using apples Remote app, or from anyones' iPhones via Airplay. Full versions of mobilinc would run on my iPhone and personal iPads for full control as well. Questions: 1) Motion detection: Elk MD are >$100, Insteon are cheaper but perform only ok. are Wired MD ($10) the best way to go and connect them to the Elk, and use the ISY for programing results? 2) Cameras: independent IP cameras seem easy to integrate into the above, but what about whole house DVR systems? Do they integrate into ELK? 3) I have a pole barn ~350ft away from the house, along with an idle ISY99i. What is the best way to add light / MD to this location as it will have its own electrical panel, so i am not sure instead would transmit that far? I might have wifi there, is there a way to utilize my old ISY99i there and have it send signals via wifi to the main ISY for joint activities? 4) Which areas are better to concentrate on the ELK vs Insteon or Zwave hardware? 5) any other thoughts? THANKS! I also have a lot of the same products and working to get my home automation seamlessly integrated. Currently focusing on the audio/visual aspect. Have the Russound MCA-C5 and VM1 connected with 7 rooms and back porch. I connected the iBridge Bay Kit BGK2 to my Mac Mini that is connected to my primary TV and holds all my Music and Video files. Very slow response but worked and displayed album artist info on the controllers. Going to switch that to one of my old G5 systems so I can have a dedicated system for the iBridge and have it backup nightly from my main systems HD to keep all the music/playlist updated. I also used the AppleTV as one of my sources and programed the IR's so I can control the AppleTV from my controllers or iPads/iPhones. I have most of my lighting and both HVAC systems and irrigation tied to my ISY994i and even a programmed a button on one of my Insteon keypads in the living room to turn on the TV, Onkyo amplifier and DVD and turn off all lighting in that room and adjoining rooms. I have not attempted to tie my alarm system or video cameras into this system yet, but plan t do so in the future. Still working out bugs with the audio/visual portions at this time. Very interested to hear how your project goes Robert Link to comment
Harrisrc740 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 My cameras are tied with my ISY994i, I can use the MobiLinc HD app to view all my cameras over my iPhones/iPads and the cameras are one of my inputs to the Russound system so I can view them in any room that is connected. Link to comment
GDavis01 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 With respect to the Russound / Audio system, here is what I have set up: - I maintain all the music on an iMac in the kitchen - I have a Russound system for an outside distributed sound system (with a subwoofer). I have 5 separate zones in the backyard with the speakers hardwired to the Russound unit in the basement. The Russound is connected to the home network via ethernet cable. I have an Apple Express router, which is in bridge mode within the home network, as an input to the Russound. - I use the Apple app Remote to access the music on the iMac and choose the Russound Apple Express as the Airplay choice. I generally always leave on certain outside zones, on the Russound, so that the music will start playing right away. However I also use the IOS Russound app to turn on or off any of the zones or control the volume of any specific zone. - I also have 2 of the Russound wall controllers but frankly I find the IOS app a lot easier to use and as such in the last 3 years I have probably touched them once or twice! - I have not yet tried to link the Russound to the ISY because I find the Russound app just as easy to use as it would be for me to open up the Mobilinc app. - Since my iPhone is always in my pocket I have also not seen the need to try setting up iPads. - Inside the house, I didn't think far enough ahead when building (!!) so the solution I use and find very effective is to use Apple TV's in the areas where I want sound. In our family room, where I have a TV and sound system, I have an Apple TV hard wired to the home network (ethernet) and connected as an input to the sound system receiver. Again using the Remote app, I send the audio from the kitchen iMac via Airplay to the Apple TV and I get great sound from the sound system. I also have a similar setup in various places within the house (master bedroom, gym, and home theatre). The added benefit of this set up is that I can display the album cover of the music playing on the various TV's connected to the Apple TV's. I find that this to be great for parties so that as people mingle around they can see what is playing. - The use of the Apple TV also allows me to readily access Netflix in those areas where I have a TV. (I also distribute my video collection using the Plex system through the Apple TV's) - The downside of my system is that I do have to turn on the various TV's / sound systems when I want the sound distributed, but really we are talking about the press of a button on a few remotes. Edit: I just realized that this is an old thread bumped forward by the previous poster! I trust that the OP got his info in time for his build... Link to comment
dbwarner5 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thanks everyone for your input. Seems like we are all on very similar tracks. House construction has just recently started. Will be finalizing the hard wiring in probably 2 months time, so everyone's input is greatly appreciated!! Link to comment
Scottmichaelj Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Thanks everyone for your input. Seems like we are all on very similar tracks. House construction has just recently started. Will be finalizing the hard wiring in probably 2 months time, so everyone's input is greatly appreciated!!Could I suggest possibly hiring a AV integration company to consult with and help you? They may suggest things to do you never would think about. For example putting in a rack in a closet, video matrix switches, where to put smurf tube for future, etc. Worth paying the money now vs retrofitting down the road. I would not use the home builders company unless its a "custom home" either, as most don't have the experience level. For example the HVAC the builders around here are now "into home automation". Uhm no thanks! Go with someone higher end at least just for the consult. Just my .02 cents. Edit: Oh and dont mount ipads or devices in your walls you may regret it later. See my other posts or say rants here about how they will become the intercom of the 70s! Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Planning a renovation that will give the opportunity to expand and improve on some home automation capabilities. I'm curious about the ELK and Russound installations you guys have. We have a monitored security system installed that the previous owner signed up for, but the equipment is poor and I would rather have control of my own, but I don't know much about the ELK other than many have integrated it with ISY. I would have the opportunity to run hardwired motion sensor lines back to a central closet during the remodel, but I don't know what equipment is necessary/worth considering. ELK's preconfigured packages seem to be designed for using the ELK as the brain rather than an ISY, so I should think I would need to be more selective. I currently have no structured wiring for audio distribution, nor a really strong need, but there is enough interest that I want to consider it while the walls will be open. What little I use now is streaming from an always on iTunes server to airport express/appleTVs using apple Remote. I like the features and integration of SONOS but find the hardware a little silly/overpriced and seems to be more piecemeal vs. integrated. Russound doesn't seem any cheaper but looks a lot more flexible, provided I can wire for it. Which Russound devices are you integrating with apple devices? the pro level devices look like they wouldn't need any outside help, but the 88x was $3500 at retail, and would still need speakers, controllers and a ton of wiring. Are you DIYing something with the ISY network module and less advanced Russound components? If there are better forums to go to for this, please point me that way. Thanks! Link to comment
raymondh Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I know a lot of people don't like the thought of having another PC running for HA but I was going through a lot of the same integration issues with ISY (I love the ISY by the way!) A few months ago I set up a Homeseer system that integrates with the ISY. This has allowed me to integrate voice (through remote Microsoft Kinects), distributed audio (including TTS) through Sonos, integration of security NVR that includes motion triggers and other events based on the cameras, Hue control, total AV equipment control (they do have Russound plugins). The system has been running error free since day one. Link to comment
Scottmichaelj Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Planning a renovation that will give the opportunity to expand and improve on some home automation capabilities. I'm curious about the ELK and Russound installations you guys have. We have a monitored security system installed that the previous owner signed up for, but the equipment is poor and I would rather have control of my own, but I don't know much about the ELK other than many have integrated it with ISY. I would have the opportunity to run hardwired motion sensor lines back to a central closet during the remodel, but I don't know what equipment is necessary/worth considering. ELK's preconfigured packages seem to be designed for using the ELK as the brain rather than an ISY, so I should think I would need to be more selective. I currently have no structured wiring for audio distribution, nor a really strong need, but there is enough interest that I want to consider it while the walls will be open. What little I use now is streaming from an always on iTunes server to airport express/appleTVs using apple Remote. I like the features and integration of SONOS but find the hardware a little silly/overpriced and seems to be more piecemeal vs. integrated. Russound doesn't seem any cheaper but looks a lot more flexible, provided I can wire for it. Which Russound devices are you integrating with apple devices? the pro level devices look like they wouldn't need any outside help, but the 88x was $3500 at retail, and would still need speakers, controllers and a ton of wiring. Are you DIYing something with the ISY network module and less advanced Russound components? If there are better forums to go to for this, please point me that way. Thanks! Scott, I personally have an ELK and ISY. You need the brain and therefore the package is a cheaper way to go vs piecing it together. You will also need the ISY of course and the ELK Plugin for the ISY. Then once the ELK is installed all your sensors can be used to trigger events in your home as well as alarm sensors. Basically dual use if wanted. For example if lets say the interior of the home is 75F and you open a window then you could turn off the A/C providing you have all the proper devices. You could use the motion detectors for the alarm but then also activate your security camera as well. As for a PC running 24/7 I am guilty and I do have one but I use it for many things. The ISY with Polyglot might be nice though as your additional needs grow but not really needed right now as far as I can tell. However do think about a remote control system and possibly Amazon Echo integration. For distributed audio I use RTI AD8x with Casatunes. I use the AD8x because it works well with my RTI remote control system and Casatunes has apps and plugins to make the remotes just work. You can setup a separate Airplay zones, use multiple input sources and can put up to 300GB of music on it, plus you can use iTunes sharing on it. You can use any AMP you want with it, it doesn't need the RTI AD8x but does need an additional AMP. The nice thing about the Casatunes/ADI is if you want to expand the system you can do so easily. Casatunes also sells AMP, I just happen to use RTI for the remote features. Somethings to think about when using Airplay as you probably know but it should be said. Most people love Airplay but don't realize if they move around their home (or go outside) if the WiFi is not perfectly setup your music can drop the connection. Also using Airplay drains your devices battery so they will need to be plugged in if you want to listen to them for a long period of time. At the end of the day don't beat yourself up over thinking things, get the basics in. Just make sure to run SMURF TUBE EVERYWHERE! Then you can future proof yourself and save yourself a headache down the road. Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is most window companies wont warranty the window if you drill a sensor into it. That being said the two way wireless Elk devices do work really well even in a large home. Link to comment
GQuack Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 dbwarner5, I am just now catching up with your posts from earlier this year. I too am in the process of a new house build and I am pleased to say I have almost the same components in mind that you state with minor variations. I am planning on a Russound CAA66 system but adding the DMS 3.1, Bluetooth BSK-1 and an intercom (ISH-1) Zwave for door handles Insteon light switches, dimmers, ceiling fan control, thermostat, etc. ISY for all controller / integration functions Wireless IP cameras Elk M1 gold wireless security system Mobilinc for geofence IOS mobile devices Windows based PC running ITunes server instead of a MAC I have no plans for X10. I am only planning on a single Russound keypad and using the IOS devices for primary Russound and lighting control. If you are agreeable I would be very interested in sharing experiences with you moving through this process. Where are you with your build and/or system implementation? Our house is in the framing stage but I am planning to deliver to the builder a wiring plan within the next 3 weeks. The fact that we are so close in terms of the overall system tells me I am on the right track. Regards Link to comment
dbwarner5 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Huddadudda, Thanks for the comments. I am working with a custom AV home theater person who will be running all my cables and installing the base systems. Great choice and you are 100% correct. Will think more about the ipad mount. Our home is just in the early phases of framing. Hardwire decisions will need to be finalized in January. Thanks everyone for the continued feedback! Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Somethings to think about when using Airplay as you probably know but it should be said. Most people love Airplay but don't realize if they move around their home (or go outside) if the WiFi is not perfectly setup your music can drop the connection. Also using Airplay drains your devices battery so they will need to be plugged in if you want to listen to them for a long period of time. This is the reason I use Apple Remote instead of Apple Music when selecting what to play. It streams it from the iTunes server directly to the end point rather than from the handheld device. That way everything can be hardwired. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.