Wiring a 2476D to a Transformer

[franzmetcalf]

Dear Forum Folks,

 

A rookie wiring question here. I want to connect a replacement 2476D dimmer to my existing landscape lighting and I’ve forgotten how the old unit was wired. I’ve currently got the wiring going from the live/lead/ground wires (black, white, and green) into the transformer’s corresponding receptacles. All is well and working. But now I want to add in the dimmer and I’m not sure how to do it. (I should have taken a photo before I took the old dimmer out!)

 

Two or three questions:

 

1) Which transformer wire does the Insteon’s red/load wire correspond to? Black is live and white is neutral. I know this because the transformer is working and the lights are on. If green is the transformer's ground, then what do I do with the dimmer’s red/load wire? The transformer seems not to have a corresponding wire for it.

 

2a) Meanwhile, where do I wire the dimmer into the transformer circuit? Do I twist the dimmer’s wires into the ones coming from my home’s electrical wiring and put the twisted pairs into the transformer’s receptacles in the same way the home wiring is going in now?

 

2b) If so, then it seems I should I do that with the dimmer’s ground tying into the electrical system’s green wire and the transformer’s green receptacle. But then what do I do with the dimmer’s red/load wire?

 

Sorry to be so ignorant, but at least I figure this is an easy question for everyone. I attach a photo of the current set up with the home's wires going into the transformer's receptacles.

 

Thanks,

 

Franz

 

[jwarner964]

What are you trying to do , what is the dimmer going to turn on ?

[stusviews]

If the transformer is not expressly designed for dimming using a leading-edge dimmer, then you may destroy the dimmer, the transformer or both. A fire may ensue.

[franzmetcalf]

The transformer is designed for leading-edge dimmers. That's no problem. It worked for year before the dimmer went bad. The dimmer is designed to turn on landscape lighting that is all tested and good, working now with the dimmer out of the circuit. So we really are focused on just how to integrate the dimmer into the wiring from the home's electrical power to the transformer.

 

Thanks,

 

Franz

[stusviews]

Electric devices require line and neutral. The line is switched so that the device can be turned on and off (or dimmed). Connect the dimmer load (red) wire to the line side of the transformer.

[franzmetcalf]

Stusviews, thanks.

 

If I understand you correctly, I tie in the line (black) wire from the house to the line (black) wire on my dimmer. But I connect my load (red) line from my dimmer into the black receptacle in the transformer. These two connections do not require creating any twisted pairs. I also tie the neutral (white) from the house into the neutral wire on the dimmer and white receptacle on the transformer. This requires twisting the two wires together and inserting the twisted pair into the receptacle. Does that sound correct? Thanks again for the pointers.

[Brian H]

You are just shoving the twisted wires into the receptacles?

You should determine the proper terminal screws on the transformer and make reliable connections.

[franzmetcalf]

Brian, the wires go up into the receptacles and are secured by screws. You can see it in the photo I attached to the first post. I hope that relieves you. But, yes, I am proposing to shove the twisted wire up in there. Of course I could add another short length of wire to the two and twist all three together and cap them, then just put that third wire into the receptacle. Does that sound better to you? It is not the way it was, before, but the way it was, before, was not necessarily correct. (Again, I wish I had had the sense to photograph the wiring before I disconnected it and pulled out the old dimmer.)

[Brian H]

On the bottom row of terminals. I believe I see a set of connections marked Line Cord In.

If you connect to the receptacles. There is a good chance you will back feed the AC into the line cord presently connected to the transformer.

 

Maybe you can give more information.

Are the outlets you want to wire to. Part of the transformer assembly or where the transformer assembly is plugged into?

The original dimmer you mentioned. Did it wire into the transformer assembly or an outlet where it was plugged into?

[franzmetcalf]

Brian, yes, it does say "LINE CORD." It's where the AC from the house wiring is presently supplying power to the transformer. I don't see how to include the dimmer in the circuit without connecting it to those receptacles. Somehow I feel the dimmer should be downstream of the transformer, so that it only reduces power to the lighting fixtures, rather than the transformer itself, but that's not the way it was set up, before.

[stusviews]

Stusviews, thanks.

 

If I understand you correctly, I tie in the line (black) wire from the house to the line (black) wire on my dimmer. But I connect my load (red) line from my dimmer into the black receptacle in the transformer. These two connections do not require creating any twisted pairs. I also tie the neutral (white) from the house into the neutral wire on the dimmer and white receptacle on the transformer. This requires twisting the two wires together and inserting the twisted pair into the receptacle. Does that sound correct? Thanks again for the pointers.

 

The code does not permit two wires under one screw. The correct procedure is the run a short length of wire from each terminal and wire-nut the three wires. So, you'll have three white wires, 1) a neutral wire, 2) a SwitchLinc wire, and 3) a short wire to the terminal; two black wires, 1) line and 2) SwitchLinc and the red wire from the SwitchLinc to transformer line terminal.

[EricK]

I know you wrote that the transformer is compatible with a dimmer, but I would not use a dimmer. Maybe that is why the dimmer went bad. Where are you going to place the switch? Is the power supply to the transformer from a plug into an outlet. If so you could use an appliance linc instead.

[franzmetcalf]

EricK, yes, the transformer's power comes from an outlet. Perhaps the reason the installer used the dimmer here is that the switch is in another location (at the front door), whereas the transformer is in the basement. In fact, I almost never use the switch, just relying on the ISY99i programming to turn on the lights at sunset. I have a couple of appliancelincs in the house, but they wouldn't, afaik, allow dimming the lights. I believe that's why the 2476D is in the loop. Anyway, I've bought the thing, so I figure I might as well use it until it burns out.

[stusviews]

 Anyway, I've bought the thing, so I figure I might as well use it until it burns out.

 

Once again, if the transformer is not designed to be dimmed, you may destroy the dimmer, the transformer or both. You also run the risk of a fire. A label will indicate if the transformer is meant to be dimmed.

 

If the transformer is dimmable and the switch controls power to the transformer, then all you need to do is replace the switch with the dimmer.

[franzmetcalf]

Stusviews and Brian, thanks for bearing with me. I think I finally understand the SwitchLinc's line/load alteration. Following Stusviews latest post, I'm going to back to the basement to wire in the SwitchLinc. The home neutral and the SwitchLinc neutral I will wire-nut together, along with a third, short length of white wire that will go to the transformer receptacle. Meanwhile, the home's line/black wire gets wire-nutted to the SwitchLinc line/black wire. And then the SwitchLinc load/red wire goes into the transformer's line/black receptacle. Looking back, I note that Stu explicitly stated the SwitchLinc's load/red line connects to the transformer's line/black line. It just didn't compute, yesterday. It all seems obvious now, but I could not figure it out from the SwitchLinc 2476D manuals I found online.

 

Oh, and I hear you on the seeming redundancy of the dimmer and the switch. The switch does control these lights, as well as some others, but it won't dim them as it's a KeypadLinc. So the switch and the dimmer both need to stay (there must also somewhere be another dimmer for the other lights this dimmer and transformer do not control). Oh, and, again, I've contacted the transformer manufacturer and the unit is designed to be used with leading edge dimmers, so it's safe.

 

Thanks so much!

[stusviews]

Are you saying that the switch that controls power to the transformer is a KeypadLinc?

[franzmetcalf]

Are you saying that the switch that controls power to the transformer is a KeypadLinc?

 

 

 

I think so, Stu, though I understand all this very dimly (haha, I bet no one has ever made that joke here before; not). There's a KeypadLinc that can turn all three scenes of the landscape lighting off and on. There are also two other devices, both 2476D dimmers. I'm away from the house right now, so can't verify this, but I recall that each one of these dims one of the scenes. So I figure the KeypadLinc is there for manual control of the lighting. The dimmers are there for, well, dimming. And the ISY is there for programming the automatic on/off, currently set for sunset/2:00am.

 

Netiquette question: Now that the dimmer is installed and powered up, I've run into/created a new problem where the ISY is not communicating with, at first, the new dimmer and now with all the devices (the two dimmers and the KeyLinc). Should I start a new thread on this in the Insteon Communications Issues forum or continue here? Meanwhile, I'm trying to diagnose via the wiki flowchart.

[stusviews]

Any Insteon dimmer should get uswitched power. If the KeypadLinc is/was supplying power to the transformer, then you should not install the dimmer as described because the dimmer would be getting power through the KeypadLinc.

 

If the KeypadLinc is supplying power to the transformer and it's not a dimmer, then you should replace it with a KeypadLinc dimmer.

[franzmetcalf]

Hmm, the SwitchLinc dimmer worked for years as set up, so it probably was set up correctly and I'm just describing the situation incorrectly. The SwitchLinc is wired right into the house wiring, upstream of the transformer powering the lights the SwitchLinc dims. There is another SwitchLinc dimming other lights. And there is a KeypadLinc that can turn the whole exterior scene on and off, the scene being comprised of the lights the two SwitchLincs dim. I have not messed with the KeypadLinc, only one of the SwitchLinc dimmers. The scenes the second SwitchLinc dimmed have continued to work properly (though now they won't, as I've somehow broken the communication between the ISY and all three devices). I didn't realize you could get a KeypadLinc with a dimmer. Seems that the installer should have just done that. Perhaps they didn't exist five years ago.

[stusviews]

KeypadLinc dimmers have existed ever since the inception of KeypadLincs. It's really important that you determine if the outlet (receptacle) that the transformer plugs into is switched or not. Turn off the KeypadLinc. Does the receptacle where you plug the transformer into still have power?

 

Also, describe the scene of concern.

[franzmetcalf]

Stu, as I'm not home I can't do this now, but I promise I will. I really don't think the receptacle for the transformer is switched, though. I think I just misled you. But if it's not switched, I don't know how the KeypadLinc turns off all the landscape lights.

 

The "scene of concern" is now all the scenes, as the ISY no longer is communicating with any of the three devices. I clearly created this situation while trying to link the new 2476D. I reckon I'll put the ISY into linking mode and go out and press the power on the three devices and see if that restores the links.

[stusviews]

Stu, as I'm not home I can't do this now, but I promise I will. I really don't think the receptacle for the transformer is switched, though. I think I just misled you. But if it's not switched, I don't know how the KeypadLinc turns off all the landscape lights.

 

That's the purpose of a scene. One (or more) device controls other devices without being wired to them.

 

The "scene of concern" is now all the scenes, as the ISY no longer is communicating with any of the three devices. I clearly created this situation while trying to link the new 2476D. I reckon I'll put the ISY into linking mode and go out and press the power on the three devices and see if that restores the links.

 

What's the indication that the ISY is not communicating with those devices?

[franzmetcalf]

Stu, thanks for the explanation of the relationship of the KeypadLinc and the SwitchLinc. I've just tested from the KeypadLinc and it does, indeed, control the whole scene. Which is nice because it can now be on when my wife comes home. Always good to please the wife!

 

Starting up the ISY Admin utility, I get error windows for each of the three devices: "Cannot communicate with "[Device name here]" Then it gives the address of the device. Then it tells me to check connection. If I choose a device, go to Diagnostics, and click "Device Links Table," I get another error: "Failed reading device link" [-200000/-5]" and "Subscriber didn't reply to event: 1 [28]" On the other hand, choosing "Show Device Links Table" returns a table. And "Query Insteon Engine" just clicks back to the main page in less than a second. "Checking PLM Communication" returns a failure stating "This device does not support PLM communication settings."

 

Does that clarify anything?

[stusviews]

Do the devices have a ! next to them? Was the Insteon network in place when you moved in?

[Guitartexan]

You do not want to "dim" the transformer. You want to dim the lighting coming from the transformer. You attach the dimmer line to the load side of the transformer and the red load wire from the dimmer to the load which is the lights.

 

 

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