Sirmeili Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't know if it's a bad KPL or maybe something else. One of my KPLs doesn't seem to always report it's button presses to the ISY. It's not all the buttons either. Some buttons always report the press. If I make it a controller for a scene with a responder, it increases the % of time it reports. I've tried resetting it (air gap for 10 seconds, then push in for 5 until it beeps), and then restoring it to no affect. Could it be a bad KPL? It's not that old. I've read some reliability of issues with Insteon, but this is just barely over a year old. Just to note, it was working pretty well a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 1. Have you removed the load (bulb) and seen a difference? 2. Have you confirmed you have proper coupling / bridging in your Insteon network as outlined in the 2413S PLM users guide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That's not the procedure for a Factory Reset. After air gapping, hold the set button in until the KPL stops beeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 That's not the procedure for a Factory Reset. After air gapping, hold the set button in until the KPL stops beeping. WEll darnit!! LOL. Ok...I will try this. 1. Have you removed the load (bulb) and seen a difference? 2. Have you confirmed you have proper coupling / bridging in your Insteon network as outlined in the 2413S PLM users guide? 1. There is no load. This button is used purely to trigger an even in HomeSeer (via a plugin) to turn on some Philips Hue bulbs. Note that I have been doing all my tests in ISY to make sure it's not an ISY -> HomeSeer issue. . 2. I will verify this again. I did search for a "users guide" and only found a quick start guide. I did what it suggested in it. I got 3 KPLs that blink "green" and 2 that blink "red". I believe this means I have proper coupling/bridging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is the one that blinks green the trouble KPL? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is the one that blinks green the trouble KPL? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Any success after a Factory Reset and Restore Device? Does the status of the button's LED change correctly with each press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 I haven't had time to try a full factory reset yet because the family came home. I will try tomorrow. As it is though, yes, the lights always reflect the correct state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 I did the full factory reset this morning and some fast testing. I will note that the first time I tried to restore the device after doing the factory reset it failed with a "cannot communicate with device" (paraphrased). The second one went though and most of the buttons worked on the first try (reporting to the ISY). Some worked after the first try and continued to work. My guess is that something is causing a communication issue, but I find that odd as all other KPLs are working just fine. I won't eliminate is a possibility though so is there anything I can do to make it better? Here is my setup: The ISY does sit in a rack and is on a small UPS. Nothing else is pugged into this UPS except my philips hue hub and my old VeraLite which I have yet to shut off. The PLM is plugged into a rack strip (no surge protection, nothing) on the side of the rack. This is done to keep the lengh of the serial cable shorter ad I would need at least 10' to relocate it and have enough room to pull out the rack if need be There are 2 other UPSes in the rack. One for my server which runs HomeSeer and acts as my media storage server as well as my development server. The other is for home theater equipment which is in the rack. Both are plugged into separate circuits, but may actually reside on the same "phase" in the electrical box. I will also note that until about a week or two ago, this KPL worked pretty much flawlessly. It triggered correctly about 99%+ of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Do you have FilterLincs on the UPS, they have a history of interfering with the Insteon signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Techman's point about need to put UPS on FilterLinc is a great point. I found it necessary to use a FilterLinc on each of my 3 UPS devices (located in different areas). Other electronic equipment near the PLM may also be helped with the FilterLinc. The "Green" KPL indicates it is on the opposite 120v leg compared to PLM. That introduces coupling questions. Using the Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 during a Restore Device to the KPL may provide some objective information. The fact that the first Restore had issues probably means the Restore that worked also had issues that were successfully retried. Run the Restore and look at the Hops Left=x counts and if retries were necessary. If issues are traced the addition of a FilterLinc may show if comm is improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The power line input filter in almost all UPS units. Absorb Insteon and other power line communications signals as noise. I am using a FilterLinc myself. UPS in the filtered outlet on the bottom and the PLM in the front unfiltered outlet. I also have an LED TV that the manufacturer put a line rated capacitor from Line to Ground and another one from Neutral to Ground. Makes a great power line signal absorber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Techman's point about need to put UPS on FilterLinc is a great point. I found it necessary to use a FilterLinc on each of my 3 UPS devices (located in different areas). Other electronic equipment near the PLM may also be helped with the FilterLinc. The "Green" KPL indicates it is on the opposite 120v leg compared to PLM. That introduces coupling questions. Using the Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 during a Restore Device to the KPL may provide some objective information. The fact that the first Restore had issues probably means the Restore that worked also had issues that were successfully retried. Run the Restore and look at the Hops Left=x counts and if retries were necessary. If issues are traced the addition of a FilterLinc may show if comm is improved. I will have to research how to do that last part. I'm sure it's in the ISY admin somewhere. (see below for my UPS/filterlinc response) The power line input filter in almost all UPS units. Absorb Insteon and other power line communications signals as noise. I am using a FilterLinc myself. UPS in the filtered outlet on the bottom and the PLM in the front unfiltered outlet. I also have an LED TV that the manufacturer put a line rated capacitor from Line to Ground and another one from Neutral to Ground. Makes a great power line signal absorber. I have 4 UPSs just in my equipment closet (Structured wiring, Server, Home Theater equipment, and HA). My only issue is that my HT UPS is 20amps. I would need to make sure that it could handle it. And it appears the filtered outlet is out the bottom, which won't really work in my setup (recessed outlets), but I supposed I could find a way around that if I have to. My other issue is that I am currently unemployed and not sure I can sink money into at least 5 filterlincs. However they are somewhat cheaper, so maybe I can find some money. My biggest tihng is that it used to work flawlessly and recently it has been more reliable (but not 100%). I am looking to remove 2 of the lamps in the living room and we already have the stuff to put in recessed cans. So I am looking into that route as well. I'm only confused about which inline dimmer to use. The 2475DA1 or the 2442-222. The latter one has pig tails that I won't be using (I'll be using the existing KPL), but It is smaller and would be easier to install (this would be in a box in the attic). edit: It appears that the filterlinc is only 10am, so for at least 1 of my UPSes (perhaps 2), it will not work. edit 2: It appears there is a 15amp plug and a 20am inline. I might be able to do the 20amp inline, but I have to make sure that the PLM is not affected as it sits in that room, so I can't put a 20amp filter on both circuits in my equipment closet. edit3: Maybe not, those seem to be for X10. I don't readily see equivalents for insteon. Maybe they are interchangeable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Using the Event Viewer at LEVEL 3 during a Restore Device to the KPL may provide some objective information. The fact that the first Restore had issues probably means the Restore that worked also had issues that were successfully retried. Run the Restore and look at the Hops Left=x counts and if retries were necessary. If issues are traced the addition of a FilterLinc may show if comm is improved. I will have to research how to do that last part. I'm sure it's in the ISY admin somewhere. Tools, Diagnostics, Event Viewer. Change the level (bottom) to Level 3. I have 4 UPSs just in my equipment closet (Structured wiring, Server, Home Theater equipment, and HA). My only issue is that my HT UPS is 20amps. I would need to make sure that it could handle it. And it appears the filtered outlet is out the bottom, which won't really work in my setup (recessed outlets), but I supposed I could find a way around that if I have to. edit: It appears that the filterlinc is only 10am, so for at least 1 of my UPSes (perhaps 2), it will not work. 20 Amp filter You'll need an enclosure and a short heavy duty extension cord cut in half. My biggest tihng is that it used to work flawlessly and recently it has been more reliable (but not 100%). I am looking to remove 2 of the lamps in the living room and we already have the stuff to put in recessed cans. So I am looking into that route as well. I'm only confused about which inline dimmer to use. The 2475DA1 or the 2442-222. The latter one has pig tails that I won't be using (I'll be using the existing KPL), but It is smaller and would be easier to install (this would be in a box in the attic). The 2442-222 is limited to 100 watts. The 2475DA1 can handle 400 watts and easily fits in most ceiling boxes. Edit: Any powerline filter for X10 will work for Insteon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirmeili Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Tools, Diagnostics, Event Viewer. Change the level (bottom) to Level 3. 20 Amp filter You'll need an enclosure and a short heavy duty extension cord cut in half. The 2442-222 is limited to 100 watts. The 2475DA1 can handle 400 watts and easily fits in most ceiling boxes. Thanks for the info. I found that filter (as you can see from my further edits). My guess is that you are telling me they are interchangeable. I have an idea to put the filter on my rack (in a safe enclosure of course) and just plug the UPS into that there and use the idea of an extension cord (heavyduty) to run out of the rack. That will work for 3 of my UPSes which are in the rack. As to the dimmer, I am ultimately going to be splitting the lights up into sections and we already have the LED trims that match the rest of the house. 100w wouldn't be bad. I'm thinking though that maybe I will just use the 2442-222 as the 6 lights won't come close to 100w (<60w actually). Ultimately I plan on splitting into 2 groups, if not 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The X10 powerline frequency is 120 kHz and the Insteon powerline frequency is 131.65 kHz. Due to cost, these filters are wide band so a filter for one is just as effective as a filter for the other. BTW, you'll need the extension cord so as to provide a plug and receptacle for the 20 ampere filter. An extension cord with three receptacles would be ideal for your three UPSs. You'll also need a separate filter for the HT UPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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