LED lights flickering when turned off from linked insteon switch

[Spta97]

Hi I'm new here and did seach but I didn't find my issue described so I'm hoping someone can help.

 

I just installed 4 recessed lights with sylvainia 9.5 watt led / trim combo fixtures in the cans. To control them, I installed two 2477D insteon switches.

 

The wiring is switch-switch-fixture and the required travelers are there if I ever move and want to replace with regular light switches but the insteon switches are hooked up as per the manual (without the travelers). They have the neutrals as required.

 

I linked the secondary switch to the load switch and it works to control the lights via the master load switch.

 

The problem is when I turn the light on or off from the "slave" switch I get a noticeable flicker. When I turn off or on the light from the master (load) switch it works fine with no flicker.

 

I have a similar setup in my kitchen on a different circuit and either switch works fine.

 

Any ideas on why the "slave" linked switch is behaving this way but the "master" load switch works without issue?

[stusviews]

"As per the manual," is not descriptive enough. Describe the actual wiring at each switch box as well as the wiring for each SwitchLinc. Also, ensure that all connections are tight.

[LeeG]

The wiring has to be verified as Stu is pursuing.

 

Also click on the Red Slave Controller entry below the ISY Scene name and check the Master Responder On Level and Responder Ramp Rate. LEDs are technically not supported by Insteon Dimmers (although many LEDs work pretty well) but a slow Ramp Rate or partial On Level for the Master Responder can create the condition. What is the Responder Ramp Rate and Responder On Level of the Master when the Slave is the Controller?

[Spta97]

Here is how it is wired. The only difference is I have another 14 gauge wire connected at the first which box which brings power to another outlet and another light in different rooms.

 

This wire is tapped into the load, neutral, and ground.

 

I only use an x10 controller and do not have an insteon controller.

 

The issue I am describing is only apparent with the "slave" linked switch.

 

Edit - the switch is set to full brightness. No dimming.

[stusviews]

That's a page from the manual. It's not your actual wiring. Describe all the wires in each switch box, for example, a cable with black, red and white and two cables with black and white. etc. You can disregard any ground wires.

 

I may ask you to temporarily change some connections as a test.

[Spta97]

Ok here goes:

 

Switch box #1 (slave):

 

- 14/3 comes into the box, this is the power wire (line). The red is a spare with no power and capped off. The 14/3 (black / hot & white / neutral) is connected to a 14/2 (hot & neutral) which goes to power an outlet and light in a different room

- Another 14/3 is also connected to the above wires (hot & neutral) and goes to the second switch. The red is capped off.

- the switch has the white wire connected to the bundle of neutrals, black is connected to the line black 14/3 coming into the box and the black 14/3 going to switch #2. Red is capped off.

 

Switch box #2 (master):

- the 14/3 comes in from switch #1. Red is capped off. Black is connected to the black wire on the switch.

- the red wire from the switch is connected to a 14/2 black that goes to the first fixture.

- the white wires from the switch, 14/2 to the light and 14/3 from switch 1 are bundled together.

 

Fixtures

- the 14/2 from switch 2 goes to the first light (white to white, black to black). A 14/2 goes to the next fixture connected the same, as does two other 14/2s for the remaining two lights.

 

Let me know if I covered everything.

[Spta97]

Just to add - the issue seems to be with the transmission of commands from one switch to the other.

 

As mentioned, I linked the switches so the slave could control the master. The transmission of commands seems choppy.

 

If I use the x10 controller (which controls the master switch) or the master switch itself, the light works fine. It is only when I use the slave switch that the light flickers when turned on or off or dimmed.

[stusviews]

At switch box#1: Connect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire to the red wire that goes to switch box #1.

 

At switch box #2: Disconnect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire and cap it. Connect the red wire from switch box #1 to the black wire that goes to the fixture.

 

What is the result?

[Spta97]

At switch box#1: Connect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire to the red wire that goes to switch box #1.

 

At switch box #2: Disconnect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire and cap it. Connect the red wire from switch box #1 to the black wire that goes to the fixture.

 

What is the result?

In step 1, Did you mean to say connect the red wire of the switch that goes to switch box "2" (instead of 1)?

 

It sounds like this will bypass the first switch.

 

Please confirm and I will give it a shot.

[stusviews]

Good catch, yes I meant "that goes to switch box #2."

 

The first switch is not bypassed. The change in wiring reverses the roles of the primary (wired to the load) switch and secondary (not wired to the load) switch.

[Spta97]

Thanks. I might not get to do this until tomorrow but I will post back when I do.

 

Appreciate the help!

[Spta97]

I just rewired the switches. To confirm, , switch #1 has the black wire connected to power. The red wire is connected to the red wire that goes to switch 2.

 

At switch 2, the red wire on the switch is capped, the red wire from switch box 1 is connected to the black lead of the fixture, the black wire on the switch is also disconnected (should it be for this test?)

 

Switch 1 has power but does not control the light, switch 2 has no power (not connected).

[Spta97]

I drew a diagram of the new wiring configuration and it appears something is missing at switch 2. The black wire from that switch is not mentioned and is disconnected.

 

Should the black wire be connected?

[stusviews]

The black wire (line) at switch 2 should be connected. But, that's not the major problem.

 

The wiring should make switch 1 the primary switch. It's wired directly to the load. That it does not work suggests that the original wiring at switch box 1 is identified incorrectly.

 

How did you identify each wire, by color? using a meter? Where doe the 3-wire cable with the "spare" red wire terminate?

[larryllix]

Switches #1 and 32 were never identified in text or on the drawing. Perhaps that caused some confusion of wiring changes?

[Spta97]

The black wire (line) at switch 2 should be connected. But, that's not the major problem.

 

The wiring should make switch 1 the primary switch. It's wired directly to the load. That it does not work suggests that the original wiring at switch box 1 is identified incorrectly.

 

How did you identify each wire, by color? using a meter? Where doe the 3-wire cable with the "spare" red wire terminate?

Where should the black wire on switch 2 be connected for your test? I see your point though, power is at switch 1 and the red wire going to switch 2 is connected to the load wire to the lights so it should work. Possible I missed something last night so I will try again tonight.

 

I ran the wires and they were tested using one of those light up testers (and a multi meter). I made changes via the labels I made on the wire sheathing last night.

 

The wires in this circuit were originally ungrounded (no ground wire) and had only one switch controlling one light so I replaced the wires.

 

The full path of the new wires is as so (I will try to make a diagram when I get home):

- the circut has a 14/2 wire going to a junction box for a florecent light

- this wire powers that light (with a single switch) and has a 14/3 wire going to the last (4th of the above mentioned setup) light in the next room. The red is capped off and it is using the junction box of this light just as a junction box. That 14/3 wire goes to switch #1.

- At switch #1 the 14/3 wire (with red capped) provides power to the switch as well as another 14/2 wire that goes on to power an outlet and light in another room (the path of those wires are undetermined as they are behind sheetrock and perhaps go into the attic

- another 14/3 (with red capped) goes from switch box 1 to switchbox 2

-switchbox 2 is fed from the black wire on the 14/3 from box 1, and has another 14/2 that goes to the first light

-each light is connected to the next light until the wire ends in light #4. This is the same junction box mentioned above where the power for switch one is connected.

 

Last night I wired as you described. I will try again tonight and diagram the plan.

[larryllix]

Label the switches as it seems your Switch#1 may be Stu's Switch #2 in the discussion.

[stusviews]

The switches are labelled. See #6.

 

Label the switches as it seems your Switch#1 may be Stu's Switch #2 in the discussion.

The switches are labelled. See #6.

[stusviews]

Spta97,

 

That "a 14/3 wire goes to a switch" is not descriptive. That "the black wire of the 14/3 cable goes to the switch," is meaningful. Also, if you don't have ground wires, then you most likely have metal boxes. If so, then the boxes are grounded. Screwing a device to the box grounds the device.

 

Most important: A voltage indicator is not adequate. A meter is required. A reading should be taken between the suspected line wire and both the neutral wire from that same cable and between the suspected line wire and the metal box.

[Spta97]

Spta97,

 

That "a 14/3 wire goes to a switch" is not descriptive. That "the black wire of the 14/3 cable goes to the switch," is meaningful. Also, if you don't have ground wires, then you most likely have metal boxes. If so, then the boxes are grounded. Screwing a device to the box grounds the device.

 

Most important: A voltage indicator is not adequate. A meter is required. A reading should be taken between the suspected line wire and both the neutral wire from that same cable and between the suspected line wire and the metal box.

I'm going to do a diagram when I get home.

 

And yes, I learned about the multi meter vs light up meter- previously the 14/2 that went to the other light and outlet had the neutral tied to another circuits neutral. Had an electrician figure that out.

[larryllix]

The switches are labelled. See #6.

 

The switches are labelled. See #6.

Once he changes his wiring the master and slave are switched. We have to assume the switch reference number are not.. The diagram should be labelled so both talk the same language. I can already see some confusion following your instructions.

[stusviews]

Switch box #1 can keep the label no matter if it houses the primary or secondary switch. What changes is the role of the switch, not the numerical designation. In fact, changing the number will lead to confusion.

[larryllix]

Your reference to post #6 states

 

"Switch box #1 (slave):

.....

Switch box #2 (master):"

 

as the only form of identification. There is no switchbox #1 established that is consistent.

 

Now you are changing the master and slave. It would seem this has already confused the OP and wiring changes were not as you instructed.

 

 Again. The diagram should be labelled with references.

 

Best of luck.

[stusviews]

Insteon terminology does not include master and slave. In a multiway configuration, the devices are referred to as primary and secondary. It's important to use correct terminology to avoid ambiguity.

 

The OP did not seem confused. The OP missed one instruction which was to connect the red wire at switch box #1. It was my error that I indicated, "At switch box#1: Connect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire to the red wire that goes to switch box #1," instead of "At switch box#1: Connect the SwitchLinc load (red) wire to the red wire that goes to switch box #2."

 

The OP was perceptive and caught the error.

 

I fully agree that a labelled diagram is most helpful. An immediate goal is to correctly identify the wiring.

[Spta97]

Here's the diagram.  Forgive the crudeness but it is done in PowerPoint.

 

The wire nuts are where connections are made.  For simplicity, I did not include ground wires but they are there.

 

The first connection of the 14/2 to the 14/3 is right past the wall in the junction box of light #4.  The red wire is not used. 

 

The switch at the bottom is what controls the load.  The switch at the top is linked to the bottom switch via programming.

 

I've noticed some slight flickering occasionally as well.  Lights all work sans the intermittent choppiness when turning off or on from the top switch (and the aforementioned flickering).

 

I have 6 of these same LED lights (Sylvania) on another setup of the same switch (2477) in my bedroom (though the switch is a few years older and may be an older revision).  The lights in my bedroom are problem free (only one switch in that setup).

 

It's late so hopefully I did this correctly from memory.  Let me know if you have any questions!