Unable to set scene to a value between on and off

[MrWorf]

I'm trying to use the REST API to set a scene to 50% light, using the following call:

 

http://isy994i/rest/nodes/5189/cmd/DON/128

 

But it always ends up going 100% instead. If I execute the same call using the device ID instead, it works as expected. But even the ISY SDK says (on page 64)

/rest/nodes/<node-id>/cmd/<command_name>/<param1>/<param2>/.../<param5>
eg:
/rest/nodes/<node-id>/cmd/DOF - turn off a device or a scene
Insteon - /rest/nodes/<node-id>/cmd/DON/128 - turn on a scene to 50%
UPB - /rest/nodes/<node-id>/cmd/DON/50 - turn on a scene to 50%

I'm using ISY version 4.2.30

[Techman]

A scene can only be turned on or off.

 

The on level and ramp rates for the devices within the scene need to be set for each device after they are added to a scene.

[stusviews]

It doesn't make sense to, "turn on a scene to 50%." If a member is set to 100%, then the device will be set to 50%. Not a problem. But, what if the scene member is as 40%. Should it go to 50% or 20%. And what about a device that's set to off? Half-off or half-on

[MrWorf]

I find it very simple. It's percentages ... all of it. So if a scene is defined as Device A at 40% and Device B at 100%, setting the scene to 100% yields just that, 40 & 100 percent. But if you set the scene to 50%, it will be 20 + 50 percent. And then you ask, what if I have a on/off only device in the scene? Well my friend, try setting an on/off device to any value between 1 and 255, you'll find it will turn it on.

 

This is the only reasonable behavior. No one should expect that dimming commands work on non-dimmable devices, but I would expect a scene to be dimmable and that devices do their best to accomodate.

 

But I guess in the end it's all down to INSTEON itself, and after closer investigation it would seem that this is a limitation of INSTEON and not ISY. Such a shame

 

Maybe documentation should be updated to not mention that scenes can be set to a specific level?

[MWareman]

It doesn't make sense to, "turn on a scene to 50%." If a member is set to 100%, then the device will be set to 50%. Not a problem. But, what if the scene member is as 40%. Should it go to 50% or 20%. And what about a device that's set to off? Half-off or half-on

I disagree that it makes no sense. To answer the questions posed:

 

1) 50%, obviously (to me at least!). This is how devices respond, why shouldn't scenes?

 

2) Still off, since 50% of zero is still zero.

 

Setting a scene to 50% should set all constituent members to 50% of their configured values. This is entirely consistent with the view that sending a 'scene on' sets all constituent members to 100% of their configured values (rather than 100% of their current setting - which wouldn't make sense IMO).

[larryllix]

A scene is a "preset" to eliminate much of the data traffic as well as some of the time delay to turn multiple devices on to a preset level and ramping speed.

 

If we want custom, non-preset, one time settings, for a device we just issue a custom Insteon command to set that device to that level. ISY even goes so far as to make the Scene presets modifiable by injecting special communications on a pre-thought basis.

 

It makes no sense to have a custom preset setting when we already have all the options. Just create another preset or scene and use it.

 

Each devices can hold what?....250 scenes.

[MrWorf]

A scene is a "preset" to eliminate much of the data traffic as well as some of the time delay to turn multiple devices on to a preset level and ramping speed.

 

If we want custom, non-preset, one time settings, for a device we just issue a custom Insteon command to set that device to that level. ISY even goes so far as to make the Scene presets modifiable by injecting special communications on a pre-thought basis.

 

It makes no sense to have a custom preset setting when we already have all the options. Just create another preset or scene and use it.

 

Each devices can hold what?....250 scenes.

 

Each dimming sequence consists of 256 levels. Especially if you use programming and want to hook up the ISY to Alexa and use the dimmer by voice (set dimmer 40% or similar), scenes are simply not enough. And while I agree with the preset concept, why can it only accept on/off and not 0-255 (0 = off, 255 = on), in terms of commands, it would be same amount of data. On top of that, a scene can easily consist of 5 to 15 devices, sending an individual dim command to each will first of all not set the scene to the the correct state (causing linking to not show the correct state) as well having severe delays (since issuing commands too fast would cause collisions on the INSTEON network) and finally it would look like crap

 

But, as I said before, this is a INSTEON protocol issue and not ISY's fault. I guess long term I will have to find an alternate solution to replace lighting controls around the house (and hue is not the solution, I want the nicely integrated switches/dimmers). Hue would be nice otherwise since it's actually capable of all of this plus color control ... Meh, would be too expensive anyway ($50/light ... REALLY?)

[larryllix]

Each dimming sequence consists of 256 levels. Especially if you use programming and want to hook up the ISY to Alexa and use the dimmer by voice (set dimmer 40% or similar), scenes are simply not enough. And while I agree with the preset concept, why can it only accept on/off and not 0-255 (0 = off, 255 = on), in terms of commands, it would be same amount of data. On top of that, a scene can easily consist of 5 to 15 devices, sending an individual dim command to each will first of all not set the scene to the the correct state (causing linking to not show the correct state) as well having severe delays (since issuing commands too fast would cause collisions on the INSTEON network) and finally it would look like crap

 

But, as I said before, this is a INSTEON protocol issue and not ISY's fault. I guess long term I will have to find an alternate solution to replace lighting controls around the house (and hue is not the solution, I want the nicely integrated switches/dimmers). Hue would be nice otherwise since it's actually capable of all of this plus color control ... Meh, would be too expensive anyway ($50/light ... REALLY?)

Multiple dimming commands are not a problem with Insteon. If you use a ramp of 2seconds or more all bulbs will dim together. I have some bulbs that look faster responding than others so I set the ramp speed different and they all appear to dim or brighten together.

 

Adding a level function to scenes would add more data to scene command protocols and yeah there is no hope for that in the existing Insteon protocol.

 

I have resided myself that dimming will be done in discrete clicks at about 100%, 40%, and 15% for LEDs the rest is really not that much different in the mood department Scenes handle this quite well. Incandescents have a completely different response curve to dimming so the 40% would become about 70% and 15% about 30% Some LEDs will not light up from cold below 15%. Regardless, multiple scenes would work just as well without 256 steps..

 

I have four Hue bulbs and I am not impressed with their lack of green or blue  capability, their price, and lack of setting memory. If I didn't have an ISY all their bulbs would be on full brilliance after every power failure in the middle of the night.  My MiLight units, at less than $20, produce all beautiful colours but cannot mix white and RGB and only four to a hub. Yuk. I have two hubs now.

 

Hopefully a Wi-Fi bulb with a reasonable price tag and features will arrive shortly.