davemann Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Hey there - New to the whole ISY, trying to get my feet wet in this, but having a bit of a rough time with Motion sensor programming. I want to do something fairly simple. The purpose is to turn on the light if I get up in the middle of the night so I can see where I'm going, then turn the light off. If it's between sunset and sunrise, AND the motion sensor is tripped, AND my lamp is not already on THEN Turn the lamp on for 2 minutes, then turn it off. During the time that the lamp is on, I don't care about more motion events. What would be the best way to accomplish this? I'm doing the following now, but it doesn't quite work 100%. It seems to sometimes trip again immediately after it shuts off. Also, sometimes it comes on when I'm sure there's no motion. Is the Insteon motion sensor a piece of crap? It seems like I'll be in front of it, waving my arms around, and it doesn't trip... Motion Light Enter - [iD 0002][Parent 0001] If Control 'Living Room Motion-Sensor' is switched On And From Sunset + 30 minutes To Sunrise - 30 minutes (next day) And Status 'LampLinc North' is Off Then Run Program 'Motion Light On' (If) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Motion Light On - [iD 0006][Parent 0001] If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Disable Program 'Motion Light Enter' Set 'LampLinc North' 40% Wait 2 minutes Set 'LampLinc North' Off Enable Program 'Motion Light Enter' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Link to comment
larryllix Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Hey there - New to the whole ISY, trying to get my feet wet in this, but having a bit of a rough time with Motion sensor programming. I want to do something fairly simple. The purpose is to turn on the light if I get up in the middle of the night so I can see where I'm going, then turn the light off. If it's between sunset and sunrise, AND the motion sensor is tripped, AND my lamp is not already on THEN Turn the lamp on for 2 minutes, then turn it off. During the time that the lamp is on, I don't care about more motion events. What would be the best way to accomplish this? If you don't want the MS to retrigger the timer then use "Status" to trigger the program. If you want a manual override that the MS cannot cancelit takes two programs or more. Auto Program (enabled) If Control MS is Switched On Then Set Light On, Wait X seconds, Set Light Off Manual Program (disabled) If Control Switch is Switched On AND Control Switch is NOT switched Off (runs else) Then Disable Auto Program, Set Light On, Wait 6 hours, Run Manual Program (Else) Else Enable Auto Program, Set Light Off. Link to comment
sasines Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Davemann, I have some experience with the Insteon motion sensor and I would have to agree with you that it is not the best piece of hardware. My experience has been, like yours, that it doesn't always pick up motion however; that is the least irritating part of this device. My biggest problem is that the motion sensor, like many insteon RF devices, has very limited range. Much, much less than they advertise. I have four of them and it seems like there is always a problem with at least one of them at any given time. I am so frustrated that I am considering upgrading my ISY 994i to Z Wave and try some of the Z Wave motion sensors to see if they perform any better. Sorry this may not be too helpful for your situation but thought that I would at least commiserate with you regarding this frustrating product. Alan Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Along with the Program comments from larryllix the Motion Sensor has configuration options. The Motion Sensor is fine and produces motion messages based on how you have it configured. Suggest you post the current Motion Sensor options as not triggering on motion indicates it is in its Timeout countdown. The Motion Sensor does not send motion message while in Timeout. The Options can be configured to not have a Timeout. Link to comment
davemann Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks all. I'll try this stuff out when I get home. For some reason, after upgrading my ISY to the latest RC version, all my sensors aren't responding to queries, and it appears as if I have to relink them. I'm getting events from them, but cannot query their current status. I have door sensors, motion, leak sensor, and a window sensor, all to re-link... sigh. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks all. I'll try this stuff out when I get home. For some reason, after upgrading my ISY to the latest RC version, all my sensors aren't responding to queries, and it appears as if I have to relink them. I'm getting events from them, but cannot query their current status. I have door sensors, motion, leak sensor, and a window sensor, all to re-link... sigh. You can not query a battery operated device. When you see a status of On/Off this is because the battery operated device sent a signal indicating its last state. When you do a firmware update or reboot the ISY that state will either be lost or show the last known state. This is expected behavior of the system and is not a fault. You do not need to relink any battery operated devices at all . . . Link to comment
Teken Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Davemann, I have some experience with the Insteon motion sensor and I would have to agree with you that it is not the best piece of hardware. My experience has been, like yours, that it doesn't always pick up motion however; that is the least irritating part of this device. My biggest problem is that the motion sensor, like many insteon RF devices, has very limited range. Much, much less than they advertise. I have four of them and it seems like there is always a problem with at least one of them at any given time. I am so frustrated that I am considering upgrading my ISY 994i to Z Wave and try some of the Z Wave motion sensors to see if they perform any better. Sorry this may not be too helpful for your situation but thought that I would at least commiserate with you regarding this frustrating product. Alan Alan, I agree the stated RF range of Insteon devices rarely meet the published specs listed by Smartlabs. But you should note that the range you see listed is direct line of sight free air. Any material in the way of the device will either absorb, or reflect the signal. Best practice is to place any dual band plugin devices at the four corners of the house. Whether that be basement, main, and upstairs (assuming you have a second floor). This insures RF coupling to any battery operated devices which require it. I've done more than 300+ Insteon installs and following this basic premise insures consistent RF signalling. When finances do not allow such hardware deployment a plugin dual band device is placed as close to a central point in the home. This is a compromise but does bolster the RF signal to power line communications. Keep in mind no amount of coupling / bridging by a dual band device will circumvent signal suckers / noise makers in the home. Most common are older 915 mhz portable phones, baby monitors, camera's, etc. Any computer related devices, UPS, cell chargers, need to be placed on a Insteon Filter Linc. Lastly, I can assure you Z-Wave is not the silver bullet when compared to Insteon. Depending upon which generation and device, brand, model, you will still require bridging repeaters to allow proper signalling. The Gen 5 Z-Wave devices have started to roll out and they advertise extended RF range, programming speed, and security. Even with this they require lots of repeaters to complete their mesh network. Link to comment
davemann Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 You can not query a battery operated device. When you see a status of On/Off this is because the battery operated device sent a signal indicating its last state. When you do a firmware update or reboot the ISY that state will either be lost or show the last known state. This is expected behavior of the system and is not a fault. You do not need to relink any battery operated devices at all . . . Thanks for that nugget - The thing is, I don't seem to be getting any heartbeats from any of the sensors anymore since the upgrade. I get the motion sense and open/close events, but no heartbeats. Is that normal too? Link to comment
LeeG Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Heartbeat occurs once every 24 hours (nominal). Have you gone a full 24 hours? Link to comment
Teken Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for that nugget - The thing is, I don't seem to be getting any heartbeats from any of the sensors anymore since the upgrade. I get the motion sense and open/close events, but no heartbeats. Is that normal too? Motion Sensors have never had a heart beat. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for that nugget - The thing is, I don't seem to be getting any heartbeats from any of the sensors anymore since the upgrade. I get the motion sense and open/close events, but no heartbeats. Is that normal too? Further to what LeeG has asked I assume you're using Belias's program to monitor the heart beat status? Link to comment
davemann Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Further to what LeeG has asked I assume you're using Belias's program to monitor the heart beat status? Not sure I have seen Belias's program for this... I just created a program that sends a notification when the heartbeat is switched on. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not sure I have seen Belias's program for this... I just created a program that sends a notification when the heartbeat is switched on. This is a very comprehensive program that monitors all aspects of the Leak Sensor but you can modify it to use for the door sensor. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/11566-leak-sensors-a-suggested-complete-program-package/?hl=%2Bleak+%2Bsensor Link to comment
larryllix Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Ditto on the Belias programs for leak detectors. I use them with modifications. mainly names of the programs that make sense of function to me. I have nine InsteonMS units and have never had a problem with one yet. oooops... I did have one go bad and aartech.ca replaced it, just on my word, with a paid return shipping box. The range is good (look for the desensitise range jumper installed), even with my one room over 25 feet long from the corner mount, and with a direct link = scene the lights respond without any perceptible delay. I have had two false motion detections (I use them for a security system notification) in the last 9 months. One I write off to the unit seeing my bird move in it's cage at over 25 feet away, and the other I wrote off to lightning. I was away and could not tell but I knew that no other unit had triggered so either I had no intruders, or the intruder(s) went back out the same window. I have MS motion counter detectors so when I get house status reports I can compare counts with yesterday's and the day-before's counts. I also have tracking programs so I can see a history of MS units and the order they are triggered tracking motion. I find these units invaluable for real HA since I don't consider remote or local control of device HA, only control with no smarts. I find the Insteon MS units 99% as reliable as the hard wired DSC dual element motion detectors installed by professional alarm companies. Link to comment
davemann Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm almost certain now that the motion sensor I have is bunk. I can walk right in front of it and it won't trigger an on condition, but if I tap it, it does... Maybe it's defective somehow. Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm almost certain now that the motion sensor I have is bunk. I can walk right in front of it and it won't trigger an on condition, but if I tap it, it does... Maybe it's defective somehow. Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk I would do the following in case it was over looked. 1. Replace the battery. 2. Verify settings are correct for sensitivity, dusk 2 dawn, nigh mode only, etc. 3. You can after steps 1 & 2 hard reset the device and select restore device and see if it operates as expected. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The MS requires about 4 1/2 minutes of solitude before it's able to respond to motion. So, if you move it around to, for example, press the set button, then leave the MS alone in place prior to prancing. Link to comment
davemann Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would do the following in case it was over looked. 1. Replace the battery. 2. Verify settings are correct for sensitivity, dusk 2 dawn, nigh mode only, etc. 3. You can after steps 1 & 2 hard reset the device and select restore device and see if it operates as expected. Thanks, I've tried the sensitivity jumper in both positions, a new battery and also reset to factory before and it didn't improve things. I made sure to put the device into communication mode to set up options from the isy admin console... It still doesn't work as I'd expect. If I walk in front of it, say five feet away, it does not trigger. Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thanks, I've tried the sensitivity jumper in both positions, a new battery and also reset to factory before and it didn't improve things. I made sure to put the device into communication mode to set up options from the isy admin console... It still doesn't work as I'd expect. If I walk in front of it, say five feet away, it does not trigger. Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk Just to be clear the LED hasn't been turned off or dimmed right? Also the correct jumper is still in place (factory inserted) so it can by default use a controller such as the ISY to execute the options. If all of the above is true and the device is under the 2 year warranty period I would send it back via RMA. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Does the red LED blink when you walk by? (LED option selected) Link to comment
davemann Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Does the red LED blink when you walk by? (LED option selected) The LED does not blink when I walk by, and the state does not change to ON. Attached are my motion sensor settings. I had tried both on and off position for jumper 1, no difference. It's currently jumpered for the 20% reduced range. The sensor is mounted in the corner of my living room aimed in the general area where you would walk from the bedroom to the kitchen through the living room. An intruder entering the living room from the front or back of the house would trigger motion. I have another sensor attached my alarm system in the same location (just below it) and it operates perfectly. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The LED does not blink when I walk by, and the state does not change to ON. Attached are my motion sensor settings. I had tried both on and off position for jumper 1, no difference. It's currently jumpered for the 20% reduced range. The sensor is mounted in the corner of my living room aimed in the general area where you would walk from the bedroom to the kitchen through the living room. An intruder entering the living room from the front or back of the house would trigger motion. I have another sensor attached my alarm system in the same location (just below it) and it operates perfectly. Time permitting can you change out the battery again and insure its above 9 VDC. Also try another hard reset of the device and then delete it from the ISY and add it back in and report success / failure. Is the device under two years old? Link to comment
davemann Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Time permitting can you change out the battery again and insure its above 9 VDC. Also try another hard reset of the device and then delete it from the ISY and add it back in and report success / failure. Is the device under two years old? I'm out of town for work at present, so I'll try at least doing a hard reset one more time and delete/readd to the ISY. I have switched to a brand new battery out of the package, and that did not improve things. Link to comment
Teken Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm out of town for work at present, so I'll try at least doing a hard reset one more time and delete/readd to the ISY. I have switched to a brand new battery out of the package, and that did not improve things. When you return please do measure the battery in case it was on the shelf for a long period of time. Its one of those things where you don't expect to see a flat cell but it happens. Link to comment
stusviews Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 A voltmeter is inadequate for testing a battery as it doesn't subject the battery to a load. Use a battery tester such as this one. Link to comment
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