stillen_i30 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I have a pretty extensive insteon network that for the most part over the past several years has worked fine until recently about a few mos ago when I purchased some more devices (the usual, KPLs, lamplincs, etc). Also, no new electronic devices plugged in. All my major electronic "noisemakers" are behind filterlincs. Only recently have a I noticed what I suspect to be poor communication issues. I have 5 or 6 range extenders, a wired-in bridge at the panel, and the filters I mentioned above in an effort to maintain solid communications. However, only recently have I had issues where programs that call for certain things to happen don't run. Some examples are a program I have to turn off all my outdoor lights during the day. I've noticed that about 4 out of 7 days per week random outside lights are on despite the program reconciling those lights, twice to be sure, to be off during daylight hours. Also, when my garage door opens certain front lights turn on but lately they are barely turning on. I have a scene test I ran of one of my outside lights which failed. Does this provide any clues as to what could be going on? Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:03 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 40 13 00 06 Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:07 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06 Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:07 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1B.4F.B1 34.E8.89 66 13 FF LTOFFRR(FF) Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:07 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 1B.4F.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=2, Hops Left=1 <html><font color="red">----- Side Garage Lights Test Results -----</font></html> <html><font color="red">[succeeded]</font> Side Garage Motion Flood (1B 4F B1 1)</html> <html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Side Garage Lights KP (2B 98 CF 1)</html> <html><font color="red">----- Side Garage Lights Test Results -----</font></html> Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:12 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.40 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00) Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:19 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.84.CF 34.E8.89 0B 6E 55 (55) Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:19 PM : [std-Direct ] 14.84.CF-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 10/13/2015 09:34:19 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 84 CF 1] [sT] [170] uom=0 prec=-1 Thanks for your ideas
paulbates Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I can think of two scenarios. 1) I have a couple of switches at the edges of my network that have to be factory reset and 'restore device' run every other year or so. I notice the flaky behavior like you are seeing, sometimes it goes on sometimes not. More likely likely it goes on but won't go back off. Devices in the same gang box, or only a foot or two away work perfectly. This kind of thing tends to happen after a long brown out period. 3) Since many devices seem to be involved, its possible your PLM is going bad. How old is it? Paul
stillen_i30 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I'm on my 3rd PLM... Replaced about 4 months ago. This new PLM hasn't "felt" that great... New v2.1. Any idea why my scene failed? This is one of a handful of devices that are not responding with nearly as much reliability as it used to, which is why I performed the scene test on this particular device. Edited October 15, 2015 by stillen_i30
paulbates Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Did you try restoring any of the devices? Or, I would try rebuilding the scene... remove the devices and then add them back in. that will reprogram everything. It should not take long to see if that helps.
stusviews Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Your problem devices seem to all be garage related. Are they all on the same separate circuit? If so, unplug or disconnect everything on that circuit except for one Insteon device. If communication improve to that one device, then add what you've disconnected one-at-a-time until you have a communication difficulty. Edited October 15, 2015 by stusviews
ScottAvery Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Did you switch to CFLs in any of those lights on the circuit?
stillen_i30 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the help. I am still having issues -Not only devices related to the garage are having trouble. Now, more than ever, my landscape lights in the backyard are not turning on. Occasionally the front yard landscape lights don't turn on either. The front landscape lights are on a different circuit than the others related to the garage. -Our christmas tree in the house is in the living room (far from the garage) and lately the program calling to turn it on or off is also becoming flaky. -I recently cleared the java cache on the computer and unplugged the PLM and ISY, then replugged everything after a few mins (PLM first then waited a min and then ISY). -I have no CFLs in the house anymore -If I manually engage a set of devices that a program was supposed to do (and didn't) using the "then" command the devices will nearly instantaneously turn on (from MobiLinc or admin console on a PC). Some of my programs have a SECOND command built in to ensure that the lights turn on (after a few second wait period) or turn off...and it is still not working Not sure what is going on here, but my reliability status has significantly degraded! Edited November 19, 2015 by stillen_i30
stillen_i30 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 Ran a few "scene tests" on various scenes around the house (master bedroom lamps and lights, backyard landscape lights including several insteon devices back there, garage overhead lights, basement home theater lights). Most of the time the scene test is run, most devices are reported back as failing. However, the devices do turn on and off with the scene test running. Not sure why this is going on either. I had a failing old controlinc that I unplugged but still getting same results.
paulbates Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Are you sure your programs are ok, no continuous execution? You could tell by looking at admin console under programs, any of the program icons "flashing". If you look at the plm or the ISY in a normal state, are the lights blinking? If the above 2 are not the case, then you have some serious line noise coming from somewhere. I have a inlinelinc controlling noisy lowvoltage lights. They work 99% of the time, but fail the scene test almost always. I also had to put filters on one of my landscape lighting transformers for the same reason. Paul
stillen_i30 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 Nothing is flashing. These are programs that I wrote a long time ago and had worked fine until recently (no changes or updates were made to those programs either). Even with the transformers from low voltage lights I used to have good communications. Nearly every one of my scenes show devices that fail but the scenes usually otherwise used to work (i never extensively checked scene tests in the past when everything was working fine though). But now that programs aren't working properly, I'm starting to get worried. I wondered if my circuit breaker phase coupler has blown out? Has anyone else had this problem (I worry about this because I've had several dead PLMs, KPLs and access points already).
Teken Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 As a data point I had a single band Insteon relay switch that controlled my front outside lights. All of the lights used incandescent bulbs and later I migrated them all to proven working LED's. This past year I noticed that I was able to locally control the lights but using any other KPL that was linked to this switch failed to operate at all. I did the famous hard reset, restore, and finally delete and remove and recreating the scenes. Ultimately, I found there was just something wrong with the switch which for what ever reason would not accept a linked command from other devices to activate it. This issue was extremely hard to diagnose and identify root cause as the ISY Console still was able to turn the relay switch on-off. Yet any linked devices in various parts of the home would not control the blasted thing. This past few months I was very fortunate to be able to replace a few of these single band devices with the much newer dual band versions which also offer dual color LED's to indicate same phase / opposite phase when the 4 tap beacon test is initiated. With out doing anything else besides adding this brand new dual band switch every KPL in the home was able to activate and control the new outdoor switch?!? I currently have this switch on my test bench and intend to take it apart and see how it reacts in a mini set up I have downstairs. I offer this insight because sometimes ultimately there is something wrong with the hardware that just doesn't work inside.
stillen_i30 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Teken, I have had a few switches like that which were just internally "wrong." They were all KPLs that came in the individual blister packs with 2486DWH6 model numbers. ALL of them were causing issues on my network. The last of the 6 was removed a few weeks ago. They have all been replaced with dualband devices. I only have a few non-dual band devices. I relocated my PLM to a nearby plug (but used an extension cord). I will wait and run "business as usual" as mainly my programs are not executing devices in the manner which they should. It will take a few days to monitor and see if this is the issue. I am going to try to place to AP's together in the garage on opposite phases (near the breaker) but I have to rewire one of my plugs to do so. Any other ideas are welcomed Edited November 19, 2015 by stillen_i30
stusviews Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 If you are comfortable working at the panel, then you'll be better served by a hard-wired coupler. Although they don't repeat the Insteon signal and they have no RF capability, there's no better way to bridge the opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply while keeping most of the signal within the residence. These couplers provide a hard-wired bridge which is vastly more reliable than RF. And, because they're wired to breakers, they're mostly unaffected by noisy devices on the power line, so you can forever rule out a coupling problem!¿!
stillen_i30 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Posted November 19, 2015 stusviews, I do have a wired phase coupler already. However, I am starting to suspect how this was installed. Let me explain: My home has a main panel and two subpanels. They're actually daisy-chained to one-another. The main panel has a bypass from the mains that feed one of the subpanels. My one and only phase coupler is installed at the bottom of this subpanel. The second subpanel comes off the first subpanel and goes into the backyard and acts as a breaker for all the pool equipment we have back there. I called insteon and spoke with someone who wasn't sure if this was going to be bridging my main and pool subpanel's breakers or not. I am now thinking of getting another TWO phase couplers during the thanksgiving sale and wiring one in the main panel and one in the second subpanel.
stusviews Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) A hard wired coupler will work at any panel, but is most effective at the main panel. If I were to get a second coupler, I'd go for the first and last panels. Or buy something else Edited November 19, 2015 by stusviews
stillen_i30 Posted December 1, 2015 Author Posted December 1, 2015 I got to installing a second coupler. Earlier today I ran several scene tests and a lot of them in the garage and backyard failed. Then later this night, I ran the same ones again several times and they repeatedly succeed. For those of you who have dealt with this before, what are some common things to consider in troubleshooting why this time-dependent communication issue is occurring?
Teken Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I got to installing a second coupler. Earlier today I ran several scene tests and a lot of them in the garage and backyard failed. Then later this night, I ran the same ones again several times and they repeatedly succeed. For those of you who have dealt with this before, what are some common things to consider in troubleshooting why this time-dependent communication issue is occurring? Things to consider assuming they are present in your home are furnace, air conditioner, dehumidifier, fridge, freezer, sump, geo thermo pump, desuper heater, etc. I would be looking at what appliances and normal cell chargers are present and charging at those time intervals. Also taking into account there have been times where a Insteon device has caused massive traffic on the power line. The most famous is the Venstar Insteon adapter plug . . . Previous generations of KPL's I don't recall which model year but they too had a bad habit of broadcasting data as if it was on a loop?!?! I would like to say it was te 1C versions but its been a long time so don't quote me on that hardware rev.
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