ertyu Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I keep getting these intermittent failures from the ISY communicating with one device on my network. It happens to be the only device on the other phase. It's a B2457D2 and I've checked the RF phase bridging and it's properly bridged with the the PLM on the other phase. Sometimes the communication works perfectly, other times it can't make contact at all. I've tried a few various things, but I'm not sure how to trouble shoot this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 What type of load is plugged into the lamplinc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ertyu Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 I just have a lamp plugged into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 What kind of bulb is in the lamp, incandescent, CFL, LED, other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ertyu Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Halogen bulb. I have another identical lamp on a different Lamplinc that doesn't have issues though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Halogen bulb. I have another identical lamp on a different Lamplinc that doesn't have issues though. A halogen bulb shouldn't be problematic. It's possible that you have something else on the same powerline leg as your lamplinc that's creating powerline interference such as a TV, a UPS, computer, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ertyu Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 The communication via powerline is likely quite problematic being on different phases, but the RF connection shouldn't have issues and the PLM and the Lamplinc in question are both dual band... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The communication via powerline is likely quite problematic being on different phases, but the RF connection shouldn't have issues and the PLM and the Lamplinc in question are both dual band... Being that your problem is intermittent it's most likely a communications problem, either noise on the powerline or the signal from the PLM is marginal. The more dual band devices you add the more reliable your network will become as each device relays the commands to the other devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I don't think the PLM puts out good RF signal strength. I have always had a dual-band module within 15' of my PLM to start my mesh throughout the house and couple it to a third phase leg off my inverter system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I don't think the PLM puts out good RF signal strength. I have always had a dual-band module within 15' of my PLM to start my mesh throughout the house and couple it to a third phase leg off my inverter system. Electric in North America (with a few exceptions) is either single-phase or 3-phase. Virtually every residence has a single-phase supply. Which inverter do you have that supplies a third phase (not leg) or do you have a 3-phase POCO supply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I believe Larry is referring to the fact his Solar Array is back feeding into his electrical system. Technically this power source is not considered 3 phase as its not 1/3rd of the power being generated but simply being back fed into the 240 VAC line of the single split phase electrical grid. As a lay person one could think about this being a secondary power source. But the reality is, if it was truly a 3 phase system it would not operate correctly and obvious damage would be seen as the power being presented on the homes electrical line would be out of sync to the existing single split phase electrical system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 My home has two phases fed from the utility's single-phase core transformer that creates two phases by grounding the centre tap of the secondary. This is typically called single-phase, three wire. Each phase is 180 degree out of phase from the other. Different people have different terminology for the two different phases. Some call them legs as being fed from a single phase supply from the grid causes confusion for them. Many terms are common due to this. My solar PV system supply has two separate inverters, with common neutrals. These independent inverters are synchronised to be 180 degrees out of phase with each other. When tied to the utility supply these inverters synchronise with the grid supplied phases. In this case I have only two different phases of voltage in my house. When the inverters are not synchronised to the grid supplied phases, I have four different phases in my house (and possibly two frequencies). The two synthesised phases may not be synchronised with the two grid supplied phases. I do not run this way often, unless I wanted to do maintenance on my grid distribution panel. The synthesized phases are used to backup certain loads like key lighting, well pump, partial heating system equipment. I could activate switches to create my fourth phase at 120 degrees to my third if desired, add a 120//120/240 transformer and create a fifth phase in my house. Single phase and three phase systems refer to the grid distribution system. I can create other phases in my home as needed from them. I can create more from my inverters when not synchronised to the incoming ones. During my career in the electrical distribution business, our utility supplied six phase systems in many apartment buildings in order to balance loading on the system and to save some conductor size in larger buildings. Other multi-dwelling buildings were supplied with two phases120 degrees apart. In the high density areas this was common, not as popular as single phase distribution, but not uncommon. By metering stats about 25% of the residential feeds were "Network" metering or two phase 120 degrees apart. It requires a full two element meter instead of the usual 1.5 element meter used for 1ph 3wire distribution. These systems are very common in higher density areas like downtown cores and multi-unit dwellings. We found most electricians were not aware of these feeds as the phone constantly rang with electrical contractors complaining the voltage in this home is too low at 216 volts and too high at 125 volts. This is classic, as electricians don't usually have any training in electrical supply systems and only think of supplies as single phase or three phase until high and low voltage complains get serviced they do not know the difference. Many never know the difference, the wiring is the same. The feed is designed to 125/216 volts at 120 degrees apart 2 phases fed from a 3 phase system. Yes my grid supply is single phase to the transformer primary. The utility was nice enough to give me a split single-phase supply, though. They split into two different phases 180 degrees apart so I can get double the voltage (240) as on one phase. many call these "legs" as the phase terminology means different things at different points in a system. As with other electricians were told, if you think they are the same phase and voltage to neutral, connect them together and see what happens. Heck, most of them still think we supply 110/220 volts. Terminology meanings vary, and so do references. I have explained this once before, perhaps too briefly. Ask an Engineer what a phase is and they will tell you about lag and lead with respect to time. Ask a lineman what a phase is and they will tell you any wire that could be alive. Ask a teenager what a phase is and they will tell you they are past it. EDIT: I just had another thought. I have never tested the Insteon comms when I allow the inverter phases to float independently. They should comm RF but I wonder what the powerline protocol will do when the phases are not synchronised. They certainly are not going to strengthen each other's signals out of sync. More testing...hmmm.... another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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