gduprey Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Howdy, I've just found out that one of my iolinc's reports it's sensors ON/Off state backwards from the rest of my iolincs. I've confirmed that none of them have the "trigger reverse" option set. From reading, it appears that the state the iolinc's sensor is in when it's added to the ISY is used to determine whether that is an ON or OFF. My guess is I had the sensor in the wrong state when I added it to the ISY (well, opposite of my other iolincs when they were added). My gut was that I have to unlink the iolink from the ISY and re-link it back again. Problem is I have a bunch of programs that will "break" if I remove the device and re-add it. Is there a way to "re-learn" what sensor state sends an ON vs OFF for an already linked iolinc? I don't want to use the "trigger reverse" option as there are numerous problems with that. Thanks!! Gerry
LeeG Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I've added an IO Linc first in sensor Off state, then in sensor On state. Both produced an IO Linc definition that showed sensor state that tracked to the Green Sensor LED next to wire connections. How does the Sensor LED On/Off relate to Sensor node On/Off?
LeeG Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Also how was the lack of Trigger Reverse being set confirmed? Clicking on Options does not pull information from the I/O Linc. The Options display may be misleading. Suggest doing a Factory Reset on I/O Linc followed by a Restore Device. This rebuilds the I/O Linc Options without any lose of Scene definitions.
gduprey Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 I actually did a factory reset and restore for those reasons. Plus I did it while the sensor was in the opposite state hoping that would "catch". No dice. The light on the iolinc does track the actual sensor correctly and I am seeing reports correctly, but seeing ON when I should see OFF and vice-versa. Gerry
LeeG Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 "The light on the iolinc does track the actual sensor correctly and I am seeing reports correctly, but seeing ON when I should see OFF and vice-versa." Can you expand on what a report is, and is it the Admin Console Sensor node that is opposite to the LED state LED (LED On, sensor node Off).
larryllix Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I actually did a factory reset and restore for those reasons. Plus I did it while the sensor was in the opposite state hoping that would "catch". No dice. The light on the iolinc does track the actual sensor correctly and I am seeing reports correctly, but seeing ON when I should see OFF and vice-versa. Gerry What are you sensing? What state are the device when you indicated 'On'? Do you understand what N.O. means? Edited January 7, 2016 by larryllix
gduprey Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 By report I mean that each time there is a chance, the unit successfully sends a report and it shows on the admin console (state change). The LED is ON when the console reports OFF and vice versa (light goes off and admin console reports ON). I'm using the Insteon garage door kit which is the same kit I used on two other doors I have (that work correctly). I do understand the differences between NO and NC contacts. I can promise you that at the moment, using the same hardware kit, this unit is reporting opposite of what my other units do. I also read in the iolinc manual that it considers the state that the sensor is in when the unit is linked and uses that as its "ON" state, so I'm guessing I had this one in a "door closed" state when I linked it and the others were in a "door open" state. Gerry
LeeG Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 The I/O Linc User Guide would be discussing manually linking the I/O Linc Sensor to a Responder.
gduprey Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 If you're sure of that (I never feel sure of anything when dealing with IOLincs), then the only other possibility is that SmartHome switched from an NC sensor to an NO sensor sometime in the past year. While that would explain things, it seems like the sort of thing folks would have noticed/commented on. At the moment, my other IOLincs are 900 miles east of me and I won't be able to test them until next month. I'd be curious if anyone else who has purchased their 'garage door kit' in the last 6 months has noticed if they got an NC or NO sensor? Gerry
larryllix Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 IIRC the LED is not reversible and always tells the truth. ie On = closed contact, Off = open contact. My feeling is that you have a different polarity of contact NO vs. NC and you will not be able to correct for it and you will have to replace it or live with the negative logic indication (not reverse it). I have an HRV contact doing this and I named it HRV.inverted so I never forget and start fixing programs.
larryllix Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) If you're sure of that (I never feel sure of anything when dealing with IOLincs), then the only other possibility is that SmartHome switched from an NC sensor to an NO sensor sometime in the past year. While that would explain things, it seems like the sort of thing folks would have noticed/commented on. At the moment, my other IOLincs are 900 miles east of me and I won't be able to test them until next month. I'd be curious if anyone else who has purchased their 'garage door kit' in the last 6 months has noticed if they got an NC or NO sensor? Gerry Just got one for Christmas and the contact supplied was N/O. Rev 2.3 #2866-392 When activated by the magnet the contact closes. This should show as an On in ISY, meaning the garage door is closed. The labelling of the point will have to have the word "closed" in it. The software reversal is too dangerous and from reading about it for two years will be avoided at all costs. Edited January 7, 2016 by larryllix
stusviews Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I've always used the Seco-Larm magnetic switches for garage doors. Besides being durable, you can choose between NO and NC. They also function well with as much as a 2-3/4" gap.
larryllix Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I've always used the Seco-Larm magnetic switches for garage doors. Besides being durable, you can choose between NO and NC. They also function well with as much as a 2-3/4" gap. Thanks Stu! I have seen this tooted many times but never at the stage where I am ready to install a GDO kit. Before I get into all the logic what is the better contact to use for the I/O Link. The one that doesn't get flipped in the middle of the night query?
gduprey Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 Thats what I have now (CLOSED => ON). My earlier ones show 'OFF' when the door is closed. So that either means there was a change in the supplied sensors from NO (today) to NC (a year ago) or something with the older config. Again, won't know for sure until I'm back out there, but will try to remember to post after to settle the issue.
gduprey Posted January 7, 2016 Author Posted January 7, 2016 Before I get into all the logic what is the better contact to use for the I/O Link. The one that doesn't get flipped in the middle of the night query? From what I've both seen and read, that "middle of the night" query thing happens mostly because someone has used the "trigger reverse" option. Trigger reverse does "reverse" state change reports, but doesn't reverse the result of a query on the device. So middle of the night when you have the ISY query all nodes, it will get a different state from anything with "trigger revese" than was last reported do to a change in sensor.
BamBamF16 Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I thought the relay node will indicate status equal to what it was when added. Bam2
larryllix Posted January 7, 2016 Posted January 7, 2016 I thought the relay node will indicate status equal to what it was when added. Bam2 I don't think that is true. I believe people have confused commands with adding devices to scenes. When you added a device to another controlling device, in a scene, with no controller like ISY to manage it (the original way), you would set the device to the state you wanted (Off, dim, bright, full on) and then linked the two devices together. Now, when the controlling device broadcasted to all units to goto scene #165 settings, the level and ramps you linked with, when the link was created, was what you got.
apnar Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 I don't have the reference handy but I distinctly recall reading in previous threads that SmartHome did change the sensor included in the kit a year or two ago. At the time of researching it caused me to buy the IOlink and Seco-Larm (linked above) separately instead of the garage door kit.
gduprey Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 I don't have the reference handy but I distinctly recall reading in previous threads that SmartHome did change the sensor included in the kit a year or two ago. At the time of researching it caused me to buy the IOlink and Seco-Larm (linked above) separately instead of the garage door kit. That's my current guess too. I'll confirm it (next month) when I'm around the units purchased in mid 2014. For the moment, I just reversed some logic, but I always hate when things aren't consistent, so I know I'll eventually change the sensor on the new one to match the old ones
larryllix Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) That's my current guess too. I'll confirm it (next month) when I'm around the units purchased in mid 2014. For the moment, I just reversed some logic, but I always hate when things aren't consistent, so I know I'll eventually change the sensor on the new one to match the old ones I would be sure others here, with the old ones, would be willing to swap with you. I seem to have received the newer one. The reverse logic labelling would drive me crazy and I would just buy two newer ones. Obviously, whoever created the reverse logic feature created an unworkable flop. Edited January 8, 2016 by larryllix
gduprey Posted January 8, 2016 Author Posted January 8, 2016 I'm pretty sure there is no change to the unit itself -- they just swapped a NC sensor for an NO one in the package sometime after Aug 2014 and Nov 2015 (my two sample points). If you mean the "reverse trigger" feature of the IOLinc, I agree -- conceptually a good idea that fails because it only works on reports, not on queries. Can't imagine anyone would complain if they fixed it so it worked on reports and queries, but good luck Gerry
larryllix Posted January 8, 2016 Posted January 8, 2016 I'm pretty sure there is no change to the unit itself -- they just swapped a NC sensor for an NO one in the package sometime after Aug 2014 and Nov 2015 (my two sample points). If you mean the "reverse trigger" feature of the IOLinc, I agree -- conceptually a good idea that fails because it only works on reports, not on queries. Can't imagine anyone would complain if they fixed it so it worked on reports and queries, but good luck Gerry Thanks for the information though. It looks like I received the updated contact version. Now I just have to decide whether to install Door control or just watch it. I have a BuzzLinc in the exit room so I could save one I/O Linc by sharing it with the garage door status.
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