Help with MS 2842-222 - Off command is turning lights off 1 minute later

[Naptown]

I have just purchased 2 motion sensors and I'm trying to get them installed.  I successfully have created a 'Motion' program that will turn some lights on when MS sends the 'on' command.  It works to turn the lights on.  I have checked the checkbox for 'ON commands only' but my lights go out after 1 minute.  I understand because it's the status or state of the MS is going back to 'OFF'.  What am I missing?  I've tried checking the 'Occupancy Mode' and unchecking it.  Lights still run for a minute and the shut off (unless still detecting movement).

 

Also, I have specified for the system to Notify me via text that motion was detected - but I'm not getting text messages.  It did send me an email ok.  I have tested the text number and the ISY will send a test text ok.

 

Edit - I might have just stumbled upon something.  I didn't realize the MS had to be put into linking mode to make changes.  I'm at work now, but will try this 1st thing when I get home.  Maybe the changes (I thought I was making) weren't happening.

[Brian H]

All the battery operated Insteon Modules. Go into a power saving mode and have to be woke up by the set button. So if you have any other models. Like a leak sensor or open/closed module. They also need to be woken up with their set button first.

 

You also need to have Jumper #5 On. As it enables Remote Software Management.

 

If you have the ISY994i Pro Version. Making sure Automatic Writes to battery devices is enabled. Makes it easier. I had mine off and doing manual writes after changes was not as easy.

[Teken]

I would like to add UDI has enabled the ISY to send updates to most battery operated devices should they activate either by pressing the set button or sensing movement in the case of the MS.

 

This feature does not work on all model years / firmware so be aware of this. Also, each device may require a specified wait period from 0-3 seconds before this process succeeds.

 

HL2 had this remote wake and update forever and worked great for the MS.

 

If you have lots of them in really high mounted positions give it a try, as trying is free! You will find this feature in the programs under the (THEN) -> MS of choice -> Write Device Update.

[oberkc]

If your program is not causing your lights to turn off when the motion sensor sends the off command, yet the lights still turn off, the only explanation I can think is that your lights and sensors are in a scene together. Is this possible?

[Naptown]

If your program is not causing your lights to turn off when the motion sensor sends the off command, yet the lights still turn off, the only explanation I can think is that your lights and sensors are in a scene together. Is this possible?

Yes, I made a scene and added 2 MSs and 4 lights.  Not sure why I made it...

[Jimbo.Automates]

Yes, I made a scene and added 2 MSs and 4 lights. Not sure why I made it...

Putting them in a scene makes the response much faster, but then you have to change the on level of the lights in thee scene for those times you don't want them on full brightness. That is what I do, but it is more involved.

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

If your lights and sensors are in a scene, then there is no reason to have a program to turn them ON. On the other hand, deleting the scene and using a program can add great flexibility to when the lights turn on and off and at what levels. If you have a program AND a scene, then you have the potential for some unexpected results.

[Naptown]

My MSs are ultimately turning on my exterior flood lights when motion is detected outside during night hours.  Should I avoid making a scene and just use a program?  Or, should I make a scene?

[stusviews]

Neither a program nor a scene has any effect on the darkness sensitivity.  All of my Motion Sensors are controllers of scenes. That make the response much quicker than a program, instantaneous rather that a second or more which is the delay a program adds. The Motion Sensors are set to send an On only, programs handle the duration of the on-time. If your lights are turning on during daylight, then set a lower value for darkness sensitivity. It takes about four minutes for the change in sensitivity take effect.

[oberkc]

My MSs are ultimately turning on my exterior flood lights when motion is detected outside during night hours.  Should I avoid making a scene and just use a program?  Or, should I make a scene?

 

Is this what you WANT, what IS, BOTH, or NEITHER.?  The decision of scene versus program comes down to what you WANT to happen.  If your desire is to limit response to motion to certain TIMES (clock), then a program is your only option.  If you want to limit response to motion to periods of lights as detected by the motion sensor, then either a program or scene can accomplish this, all dependent, as stusviews notes, the sensitivity setting of the motion sensor.  In fact, the motion sensor, itself, can limit response ONLY based on ambient light.  If you want conditions beyond this (time, home or away, manual intervention, override), you will need a program.

 

My perceptions over the years reading posts is that many don't spend enough time deciding what they want to happen.  My recommendations are to consider the possibilities.  Are you happy with motion sensors that trigger always, or during the dark?  Do you want the ability to manually override the motion sensors and leave the lights on until you choose otherwise?  Do you want the ability to manually disable the response to motion , should the need arises?  Do you want the lights to stay on so long that motion is continuously detected?  Would you rather limit response to time? 

[Naptown]

OK, thanks for everyone's input.  I have figured out how to properly communicate with my MS and have this kind of working.  Right now, my lights are working via ON & OFF signals from the MS.  I have tried the 'ON Signals only' method, but the 'Current State' is constantly 'ON'.  So, I'm relying on the 'OFF' signal to shut off my lights.  What am I missing on this?

 

I want to control the scenario via my UD software.  How does the logic look if I want the program to get a signal from the MS and then it does what I specify?  Right now, the lights stay on as long as i have for the timeout  ( I have played with this and my lights stay on for this amount of time).  I have 'Only After Timeout' checked.

 

I apologize this is the only way I know to post my program code:

 

[Teken]

You need to change the (IF) to *Control* vs Status. To add your program to the forum post simply right mouse click on the program and select copy to clip board. Then come back and select paste to the forum post.

[Naptown]

ok, control makes sense.  Let me do some testing.  Standby.

 

Now, how does this look?

 

Motion after hours - [iD 000B][Parent 0001]

If
        From    Sunset
        To      Sunrise (next day)
    And (
             Control 'Motion Driveway-Sensor' is switched On
          Or Control 'Motion Patio-Sensor' is switched On
        )
 
Then
        Set 'Flood 1' On
        Set 'Flood 2' On
        Set 'Flood 3' On
        Set 'Flood 4' On
        Wait  20 minutes
        Set 'Flood 1' Off
        Set 'Flood 2' Off
        Set 'Flood 3' Off
        Set 'Flood 4' Off
 
Else
        Set 'Flood 1' Off
        Set 'Flood 2' Off
        Set 'Flood 3' Off
        Set 'Flood 4' Off
 
 

 

Edit:  updated code to reflect night hours

[oberkc]

I SUSPECT you have some logic problems, but it is hard to say for certain without knowing WHAT you want to accomplish with this program.

 

What do you want to happen at sunset? What do you want to happen at sunrise? Do you want the lights to respond to motion at all times, or only at certain times?

 

Your particular program will turn the lights on at sunset (then off 20 minutes later), and will turn the lights on (then off 20 minutes later) when motion is sensed by either sensor. If the lights are on at sunrise, your program will turn them off.

 

Making the changes suggested by teken will restart the 20 minute timer (if running) at each detection.

[Naptown]

What do you want to happen at sunset? What do you want to happen at sunrise? Do you want the lights to respond to motion at all times, or only at certain times?

 

• At sunset, I want the motion detector to start scanning for motion and turn on flood lights if motion is detected.  ( I know I can use the 'Night Only' checkbox too - which is better?)
• At sunrise, I won't want the flood lights to be triggered until the following eveing.
• I want lights to only respond during the night.

[Teken]

I am like Oberkc where I like to keep things simple and (IF) only that simple method can't be accomplished than I move forward with program intervention.

 

My suggestion is set the MS to night only mode and ensure the light sensitivity is set correctly and go from there.

[stusviews]

The program looks good. I agree, set the MS to night only. Lower sensitivity numbers require darker conditions. It takes about 4-1/2 min for the settings to kick in, so don't expect immediate results. I adjusted mine over several days even more considering the days I forgot to make an adjustment

[Naptown]

Perfect, thanks guys.  I'll work on this more the next few evenings.

[oberkc]

 

• At sunset, I want the motion detector to start scanning for motion and turn on flood lights if motion is detected.  ( I know I can use the 'Night Only' checkbox too - which is better?)
• At sunrise, I won't want the flood lights to be triggered until the following eveing.
• I want lights to only respond during the night.

Great. It is as I suspected.

 

I agree with teken...simple first. Use scenes where you can, use programs where you must.

 

In this case, however, you want to limit response to certain clock times (sunset to sunrise), which drives to a programmatic solution. By the way, I personally use sunset and sunrise, but have no preference for time versus light levels. I can argue for either, but the differences are trivial, in my mind. If you opt for light levels, then I would skip the program and use scenes.

 

To use a program, first, make sure you eliminate the scene between the motion sensor and lights.

 

Regarding your program, in logic terms, you are wanting two conditions to BOTH be true. In logical construct, this would be if time is X AND (not OR, as in your original program) motion is sensed.

 

Interrupt....I missed your updated program in post 13. You corrected the OR to AND, and added parenthesees bracketing the two motion sensor conditions. Perfect! I expect this program to work exactly as you desire.

 

I would take, however, one additional step...create a single scene with your four lights, all as responders. Adjust your prgroa, to turn on/off the scene, rather than the individual lights.

[oberkc]

Also, if you plan to rely on the program, light sensitivity settings become almost moot. If you make the sensitivity settings too extreme, you run the risk that it is technically sunset, but the program wont execute because there is still enough light to prevent the motion sensors from firing.

[stusviews]

oberkc is correct. A scene would cause all the lights to turn on or off concurrently. With a program, the lights respond sequentially.

[Naptown]

question on timeout setting.  For my scenario, how about a 10 minute timeout?  Then, control the lights through a program 15 - 30 minutes ON.  So, once motion is detected, the program runs for the designated time.  Thinking it would be nice to not get another ON signal for the next 10 minutes (timeout setting).

 

Does this make sense?  Or, should I change the timeout to .5 minutes or ???

[stusviews]

If "On only" is not selected, then the linked device(s) will turn off after the sooner of the MS or program setting.

[Naptown]

If "On only" is not selected, then the linked device(s) will turn off after the sooner of the MS or program setting.

 

Yeah, I did opt for the 'ON only' as most seemed to prefer that method.  But, should I have it constantly send that signal?  Thinking we may play in the yard for a couple hours after dark and have a couple hours of signals.  Just thinking broadly here - would that help battery life a little bit having a 10 minute timeout?

[oberkc]

I don't know whether that helps battery life, but it sure seems very possible and I suspect that it would.

 

The trick is to find the right balance here.  Do want to reset the 15-30-minute countdown after each motion detection?  Are you happy to wait 10 minutes to begin watching for motion again before you reset the countdown? 

 

Note, also, that there an option to select whether to detect motion always, or only after the timeout.  This will also affect the frequency which the motion sensor will transmit ON commands.