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Test Thermostats for Heat Mode - Issue

EddieRock

By EddieRock
in ISY994

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EddieRock Experienced

EddieRock

Posted
Posted

I have a program to check if the thermostats are on heat mode. If they are not, the program sets them  to heat and emails me.

 

To save time (have to leave), I've attached an image of how the program is setup. I get random texts throughout the day saying they are not on heat mode and then the program sets them. Do you think these are false alarms or do you think they are actually going off of heat mode. I looked in the logs but have a hard time determining what's going on. the alerts are on different thermostats throughout the day.

 

Also, if you ask me to post my logs, do I have to "cleanse" them of my device ID's because of security concerns?

 

See attached.

 

Ed

 

Edit: Added the image of the program that tests and notifies on one of my tstats.

post-7268-0-19581400-1455504916_thumb.png

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KeviNH Advanced

KeviNH

Posted
Posted

I'd recommend rewriting your program slightly, and also making a custom notification that reports the heating mode of each thermostat.   For example, for my ZWave thermostat I put this text in the notification: "Upstairs thermostat mode is ${sys.node.ZW003_1.CLIHCS}".  Do this for each thermostat, and you'll know which one is triggering your program.

 

I would write the program like this:

       Wait 1 minute
       Send notification "Mode is not heat...." (including current modes)
       Wait 1 minute
       Set mode to heat....
       Send notification "I reset the mode to heat...." (including current modes)
       Set mode heat thermostat1
       ....

The waits are important, especially for the first notification --   because the notification is delivered by a separate task, if you call send notify and then immediately change the value of one of the items that is a variable in the notification, it's a race condition and sometimes your notification text will have the new value that was just set, not the old value as of the time the program was triggered.   Waiting even a few seconds avoids this.

 

The second wait ensures that the actions following the Wait will not be performed if the Conditions ('If') change.  So if the problem clears itself up, you will not get the "I reset the mode to heat..." message.

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EddieRock Experienced

EddieRock

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Yah, i have separate programs for each tstat. So, each program watches its own tstat. I'm just trying to figure out if they are actually changing from heat. I decided to implement this because if the tstats lose power (with the house), they turn back on in "off" mode. It can get down to -20 or lower in Minnesota so i needed to setup a failsafe since these do not have batteries.

 

Ed

 

Sent from my Android device

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hart2hart Advanced

hart2hart

Posted
Posted

I handled the power failure issue by having a program that ran at start up to set each tstat to proper mode based on saved init value of a variable.

 

I never saw them jump in between modes so I'd have program for each tstat with an instant alert via text (no mode setting only notify) so you can get visual confirmation.

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mwester Advanced

mwester

Posted
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It gets that cold here one state over... and I am very concerned that I not do anything with my Insteon or other projects that would result in the heat failing.  For any reason.

 

If your thermostats may fail to come back with a reasonable set point, then I respectfully submit that the solution is not to depend on an overly-complex solution such as the ISY.  Oh sure, do have the ISY program - but don't depend on it, because it too can fail!  Instead, I'd suggest that you wire in an old mechanical-type thermostat in parallel with the high-tech one that fails so badly - and set the junky mechanical one (that you can rely on!) to a setting that will keep the house from freezing.

 

Fly-by-wire is great, but when it doesn't work reliably, any sane person will want to ensure they have a mechanical linkage as a fallback instead of depending on yet another fly-by-wire system as a fallback.

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KeviNH Advanced

KeviNH

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Dooh! It would help if I put the correct screenshot in the original post. I actually have 4 programs (one for each tstat with separate notifications... When my kids are off the computer I'll update the pic...

I'd still try adding the wait statements, see if the false alarms go away.

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larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted

@MWareman

Not a bad idea!

I have begun to not worry about my home freezing. After setting my house temp back to 10 C last January I watched it take almost two weeks before the temp dropped that far in Feb 2015. Yeah it went to freezing in Orlando are at that time too and it was -20C here in Ontario.

 

When building my home I had an open attic and my basement didn't freeze water on the ground inside despite -20 C for a week. After two weeks a thin film of ice formed and the melted the next day. The house was fully insulated in the walls at that time. We get very little sun in the winter and there was no heat available.

 

I have no plumbing in outside wall, though. I now have an On/Off module running a small heater in the utility room set at 5C for an emergency long term failure of my heating. It also acts as a repeater for Insteon signals, being in the elbow of our L shaped house.

 

With all this thermal mass and insulation my house take 3 hours to raise the temperature 3 degrees though. This is a PITA if I get home and the temp is really low. We have to sleep with an electric blanket for at least one night and wear heavy clothing for the next day. :)

 

If you have an insulated home the freezing risk is minimal for less than a week of heating failure unless you have pipes in the outside walls.

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EddieRock Experienced

EddieRock

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Not a bad idea!

I have begun to not worry about my home freezing. After setting my house temp back to 10 C last January I watched it take almost two weeks before the temp dropped that far in Feb 2015. Yeah it went to freezing in Orlando are at that time too.

 

When building my home I had an open attic and my basement didn't freeze water on the ground inside despite -20 C for a week. After two weeks a thin film of ice formed and the melted the next day. The house was fully insulated in the walls at that time. We get very little sun in the winter and there was no heat available.

 

I have no plumbing in outside wall, though. I now have an On/Off module running a small heater in the utility room set at 5C for an emergency long term failure of my heating. It also acts as a repeater for Insteon signals, being in the elbow of our L shaped house.

 

With all this thermal mass ad insulation my house take 3 hours to raise the temperature 3 degrees though. This is a PITA if I get home and the temp is really low. We have to sleep with an electric blanket for at least one night and wear heavy clothing for the next day. :)

You must have a boiler like I do. It takes at least 3 hours to raise my home 5 degrees. I typically keep all tstats at the same temp most of the day/night. I believe it's better on the pocketbook long term... Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I do it.

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larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted

You must have a boiler like I do. It takes at least 3 hours to raise my home 5 degrees. I typically keep all tstats at the same temp most of the day/night. I believe it's better on the pocketbook long term... Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I do it.

Sorry. It takes three hours to raise the house one degree C.

 

I have a 180,000 BTU/hr tamkless water heater that runs in floor hydronic in the basement and n air handler with coil but I only run 60c water and it isn't very high BTU output from the air handler.

 

I lower my stats 2 degrees C at night and it takes 6 hours to get it back each day. My MBR runs cooler so that helps with not as much setback to sleep.

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stusviews Advanced

stusviews

Posted
Posted

Dooh! It would help if I put the correct screenshot in the original post. I actually have 4 programs (one for each tstat with separate notifications... When my kids are off the computer I'll update the pic...

 

Ed

 

Sent from my Android device

 

With separate programs, you can determine if all or only one thermostat is going out of heat mode. BTW, which thermostats are you using?

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EddieRock Experienced

EddieRock

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 Is there any way to verify in the logs if the tests are going off or if I'm getting a bad reading from the ISY? I've added two waits in one of the tstats to avoid the "race condition"

 

Below is from the logs as I just received a notice that one of my tstats turned "off" while I was writing this. Strange... 

 

See below. Ignore the one that is crossed out. that's another tstat on our Green Room.

 

Bedroom Level / Bedroom Thermostat - Main Status Query░ Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:14 PM Program Log
Bedroom Level / Bedroom Thermostat - Main Thermostat Mode Off Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:21 PM System Log
Bedroom Level / Bedroom Thermostat - Main Unit 1 Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:21 PM System Log
Green Room and Entryway / Green Room Thermostat- Main Status Query░ Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:22 PM Program Log
Bedroom Level / Bedroom Thermostat - Main Thermostat Mode Heat Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:27 PM Program Log
Bedroom Level / Bedroom Thermostat - Main Thermostat Mode Heat Sun 2016/02/14 09:18:29 PM System Log
 
Maybe when I'm home and it's a bit warmer, I'll change the program to only alert me but not reset/change the tstat to heat. Then I can check if it's going off or if the system is getting a bad reading.
 
Any other thoughts or ideas?

 

EddieRock 

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stusviews Advanced

stusviews

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Posted

I query the tstats every 15 minutes all day. Yes, they are insteon v2 2441th

 

Sent from my Android device

 

Is that the version on the paper label or the version reported by the iSY?

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larryllix Advanced

larryllix

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Posted

As i write this, there is a frozen house post in reddit/imgur: https://m.imgur.com/a/kTuNU

 

Sent from my Android device

That didn't happen in one night and not likely within a week either. My house took almost two weeks to drop to 10c in Ontario last February, when it was -15 to -20 every day. To get down to 0c inside may never happen, if the sun shines on the house during the day.

 

The house has insulation between the studs as you can see the wooden studs leaked the heat outside faster than the pockets between the studs.

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EddieRock Experienced

EddieRock

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This sound like the query gives glitches in the status.

 

Why are you querying these devices on a regular basis? I only have 2441ZTH units so there is never a point in querying them. I don't know about the 2441TH units. Stu is more the expert on those.

Wanted to ensure that is one was turned off that it would go back to heat. This was initially for human use but they started alerting on their own..

 

Also don't want to end up like this: https://m.imgur.com/a/kTuNU

 

Sent from my Android device

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