mfullerca Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) I have an ISY994i running 4.3.26. Similar to the user in "New PowerLinc Modem 2413S - most of my devices no longer communicate": http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17943-new-powerlinc-modem-2413s-most-of-my-devices-no-longer-communicate/?hl=%2Bplm+%2Blinks I made the grievous error of installing the new PLM w/o power cycling[*]. After reading the correct procedure and trying a few iterations, I eventually concluded the new one may be defective (not 100% sure, but "Diagnostics->PLM" Status was giving an error). I decided to just go back to the old one, also with the proper procedure, but since then almost nothing works right: I've manually reset and "Restore device" stubborn devices I've got the admin console to the point it can see every device, no "1011" icons, etc. If I "Query" any device, the admin console immediately gets the correct state However, if I change state of any device (on/off, thermostat change, etc) the admin console fails to see the event Similarly, all motion detectors do nothing So, it is as if all devices function properly independently, but when their state changes, they are not notifying the PLM. Any ideas? I'm at my wits end because I'd think a reset and "Restore device" should fix it, and everything seems fine otherwise. To make matters worse, I'm about to go on vacation and I really need a few key components to function before I leave or I'll come back to a dead lawn, etc. Thanks! __ * I bought one as a "backup" because I thought my current one broke, but old one just needed power cycled. I'd foolishly decided I should test the new one to make sure it worked. Edited March 18, 2016 by mfullerca
LeeG Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Switching PLMs to test and going back is not good. Each device has link records that connect the device to the PLM (and therefore ISY). The lack of communication of manual device operation (On and Off) indicates the devices do not have the correct PLM information now. It would be good to have the actual error that was seen when the new PLM was queried. What PLM do you want to use now? Power down ISY and PLM. Connect PLM and power it. After 30 seconds power ISY. When ISY and Admin Console are fully up, run Restore Modem PLM. When that is finished run "Restore Devices" which will take some time. Any battery powered devices must be restored "one device at a time". Insure the last restored battery device is no longer in link mode before moving to the next battery device. Edited March 17, 2016 by LeeG
mfullerca Posted March 17, 2016 Author Posted March 17, 2016 Switching PLMs to test and going back is not good. Each device has link records that connect the device to the PLM (and therefore ISY). The lack of communication of manual device operation (On and Off) indicates the devices do not have the correct PLM information now. I realize that now, but there was nothing in the UI to indicate that this was a bad idea. And yes, this was my conclusion about the effects/results as well. It would be good to have the actual error that was seen when the new PLM was queried. What PLM do you want to use now? IIRC the error was the one that indicates it can't communicate to the PLM at all (0.0.0 or something like that). Given all the bad things I've heard about PLM reliability, I'd like to use the new one so I have one with perhaps a longer life remaining and a known good emergency backup on hand, but I don't want to waste a lot of time. E.g., if I'd have known what I was getting into, I'd have not tried to test it. Power down ISY and PLM. Connect PLM and power it. After 30 seconds power ISY. When ISY and Admin Console are fully up, run Restore Modem PLM. When that is finished run "Restore Devices" which will take some time. Any battery powered devices must be restored "one device at a time". Insure the last restored battery device is no longer in link mode before moving to the next battery device. Thanks. Btw, I already did this process twice (once with each), but I will try again since I now have more confidence it is the right thing to do. Re: the battery devices, it would be nice if something made this clear as well. I believe I was inadvertently linking a motion detector with its neighbor by trying to do them at once.
LeeG Posted March 17, 2016 Posted March 17, 2016 Was a Delete Modem (PLM) command issued? (should not be done) If a Delete Modem was done then an ISY Backup taken before the Delete was done must be restored before PLM and devices restored.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 Nope, fortunately I avoided the "Delete Modem" trap.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 *sigh* The new PLM is totally dead (LED dark, doesn't respond to factory reset, no beep or anything). So I went back to the original one and I did as LeeG suggested (Power down ISY and PLM. Connect PLM and power it. After 30 seconds power ISY. When ISY and Admin Console are fully up, run Restore Modem PLM. When that is finished run "Restore Devices" which will take some time. Any battery powered devices must be restored "one device at a time"). No change from my original post: devices seem to not update the ISY994i. I'm tempted to go back to the last backup and repeat the process, but I'd done a rewrite of some of my programs and I'd rather not lose that so I'm not going to do that unless someone says it is absolutely necessary and better than re-linking every device (I only have 12). The annoying thing is, though, I've already reset and restored 8 of the 12 devices, and some at least 5 times (the motion sensors), so I have no faith it will help.
Teken Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 *sigh* The new PLM is totally dead (LED dark, doesn't respond to factory reset, no beep or anything). So I went back to the original one and I did as LeeG suggested (Power down ISY and PLM. Connect PLM and power it. After 30 seconds power ISY. When ISY and Admin Console are fully up, run Restore Modem PLM. When that is finished run "Restore Devices" which will take some time. Any battery powered devices must be restored "one device at a time"). No change from my original post: devices seem to not update the ISY994i. I'm tempted to go back to the last backup and repeat the process, but I'd done a rewrite of some of my programs and I'd rather not lose that so I'm not going to do that unless someone says it is absolutely necessary and better than re-linking every device (I only have 12). The annoying thing is, though, I've already reset and restored 8 of the 12 devices, and some at least 5 times (the motion sensors), so I have no faith it will help. Given you have limited time at the moment before you leave for vacation. It really comes down to risk vs reward in knowing its done right the first time. Since you only have 12 devices the best approach is to restore from a good known back up. Once that is loaded you can initiate the PLM Restore, then a Device Restore. Can you please indicate what the white sticker says for the 2413S PLM for us?
LeeG Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Should be no need to restore an ISY Backup. Run the Event Viewer while operating a device. Post the event trace. Confirm that Help | About shows same information for Firmware and UI.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Yes, Firmware and UI are the same (attached). PLM is 1E.46.31 v9B. At level 3 ("Device communication events"), I see events if I take action from the ISY994i, but if I go manipulate devices, there's nothing. I tried: Changed temperature on one thermostat. Did jumping jacks in front of motion detector. Changed temperature on other thermostat. Activated a scene from a switch (one switch, one outlet). Pressed a button that normally activates a program on the ISY994i. Everything failed but #4 (the scene worked, but it is between a switch and an outlet; the ISY994i is a passive observer for that). No events logged. These are all devices with previously ~98% event reliability. I attached the event log, anyway, but my unlogged actions start with #1 around 9:00:00pm. I also tried to restore a RemoteLinc 2 at 9:01:27pm to no avail. ISY-Events-Log.v4.3.26__Thu 2016.03.17 09.13.52 PM.txt Edited March 18, 2016 by mfullerca
LeeG Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 "Everything failed but #4 (the scene worked, but it is between a switch and an outlet; the ISY994i is a passive observer for that). No events logged. " The Switch should have sent a message to the PLM for this activity. Do a Show Device Links Table for the Switch and post.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 LeeG, apparently this board won't allow upload of .xml files? So I put them in a Zip: Kitchen.* is the switch from #4 (24.EF.1B) Landscape.* is the device in the scene from #4 (22.70.6D) Thermostat.* is one of my failed thermostats (just for additional data) Recall the PLM is 1E.46.31 (also broken PLM was 3D.C8.09). Thanks! links.zip
Teken Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 On the back of the new 2413S PLM there should be something to the effect of Rev 2.1 / 2.2 with a production date indicated in the following way: 1546 / 4615. Can you provide the information for both units you have on hand. The 46 is the production week and the 15 is the year: Produced 46th week of 2015. Also please delete the image that has the UUID for your controller as this is sensitive information no one needs to know.
LeeG Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Something else happened during the PLM change activity. The thermostat has 00.00.00 for PLM address. Upstairs Thermostat - Main / 21 CA 81 1 0FF8 : A2 00 00.00.00 03 4E 46 0FF0 : E2 EF 00.00.00 FF 1F EF 0FE8 : E2 01 00.00.00 FF 1F 01 0FE0 : E2 02 00.00.00 FF 1F 02 0FD8 : E2 03 00.00.00 FF 1F 03 0FD0 : A2 02 23.2B.7B 05 4B 46 0FC8 : 22 12 1E.46.31 45 55 48 - the only link with 1E.46.31 is deleted link record 0FC0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Device Record Count : 8 The Kitchen switch has no Controller link (E2 .......) back to any PLM. Kitchen / 24 EF 1B 1 0FF8 : A2 02 2E.70.B2 FF 1F 04 0FF0 : A2 01 2E.70.B2 FF 1F 03 0FE8 : A2 00 1E.46.31 FF 1F 01 0FE0 : E2 04 22.70.6D 01 00 04 0FD8 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Device Record Count : 5 It looks like a Delete Modem (PLM) was issued somewhere or the steps to power up PLM, then power up ISY was not done. Whatever happened the ISY information is not correct, otherwise the Restore Devices would have resolved. Need to restore an ISY Backup taken before the PLM change activity. Then Restore Modem (PLM) followed by a Restore Devices.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 Teken, "new"/ dead PLM says V2.2 1546. "Old" PLM will have to wait until I'm back home, but IIRC it is V1.7. On the back of the new 2413S PLM there should be something to the effect of Rev 2.1 / 2.2 with a production date indicated in the following way: 1546 / 4615. Can you provide the information for both units you have on hand. The 46 is the production week and the 15 is the year: Produced 46th week of 2015. Also please delete the image that has the UUID for your controller as this is sensitive information no one needs to know.
mfullerca Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 LeeG, any way to save the recent modifications to my programs when restoring the backup? Or any other way around this (e.g., hand-edit the link XML and reload, or factory reset, re-add, and "replace device"), because I need to weigh the man-hours of trying to reproduce ~3 hours of changes to the programs vs this. Something else happened during the PLM change activity. The thermostat has 00.00.00 for PLM address. Upstairs Thermostat - Main / 21 CA 81 1 0FF8 : A2 00 00.00.00 03 4E 46 0FF0 : E2 EF 00.00.00 FF 1F EF 0FE8 : E2 01 00.00.00 FF 1F 01 0FE0 : E2 02 00.00.00 FF 1F 02 0FD8 : E2 03 00.00.00 FF 1F 03 0FD0 : A2 02 23.2B.7B 05 4B 46 0FC8 : 22 12 1E.46.31 45 55 48 - the only link with 1E.46.31 is deleted link record 0FC0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Device Record Count : 8 The Kitchen switch has no Controller link (E2 .......) back to any PLM. Kitchen / 24 EF 1B 1 0FF8 : A2 02 2E.70.B2 FF 1F 04 0FF0 : A2 01 2E.70.B2 FF 1F 03 0FE8 : A2 00 1E.46.31 FF 1F 01 0FE0 : E2 04 22.70.6D 01 00 04 0FD8 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Device Record Count : 5 It looks like a Delete Modem (PLM) was issued somewhere or the steps to power up PLM, then power up ISY was not done. Whatever happened the ISY information is not correct, otherwise the Restore Devices would have resolved. Need to restore an ISY Backup taken before the PLM change activity. Then Restore Modem (PLM) followed by a Restore Devices.
LeeG Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Sorry, I have never tried that. I would worry about manually changing XML. However, the risk versus reward is something only you can judge.
jerlands Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 LeeG, any way to save the recent modifications to my programs when restoring the backup? Or any other way around this (e.g., hand-edit the link XML and reload, or factory reset, re-add, and "replace device"), because I need to weigh the man-hours of trying to reproduce ~3 hours of changes to the programs vs this. You can export your entire "My Program" folder, then after you're up and running I believe you'd have to delete all programs and import. Jon...
Teken Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Teken, "new"/ dead PLM says V2.2 1546. "Old" PLM will have to wait until I'm back home, but IIRC it is V1.7. Thank you for the update to the 2413S PLM hardware & production date. I am quite taken aback in reading your PLM has died so quickly. If it proves to be the case this will have been the 3rd hardware revision 2.2 produced in 46th week of 2015 that has failed on this forum. Please do follow up with the forum members once you receive your replacement unit and indicate what the white sticker / ISY indicates when it comes in.
mfullerca Posted March 19, 2016 Author Posted March 19, 2016 LeeG, good news! Restoring the last backup seems to have fixed everything and, as a bonus, it seems I took my last backup after I'd re-written my programs (so I'm not so dumb as to not keep my backups up-to-date, I just have a bad memory ). Sorry, I have never tried that. I would worry about manually changing XML. However, the risk versus reward is something only you can judge.
mfullerca Posted March 19, 2016 Author Posted March 19, 2016 Btw, the "old" / still working one is V1.7 (as I remembered), production date 1222 (which makes sense -- I likely got the system in late 2012 or early 2013). Thank you for the update to the 2413S PLM hardware & production date. I am quite taken aback in reading your PLM has died so quickly. If it proves to be the case this will have been the 3rd hardware revision 2.2 produced in 46th week of 2015 that has failed on this forum. Please do follow up with the forum members once you receive your replacement unit and indicate what the white sticker / ISY indicates when it comes in.
mfullerca Posted July 23, 2016 Author Posted July 23, 2016 So I didn't follow-up in March because I just returned the bad modem vs replacing it since the old modem wasn't bad, replacing the PLM was such a pain, and testing a replacement just to have a spare on hand didn't seem recommended, so it seemed a bad ROI to buy and sit on one w/o testing it, especially if there's a known bad batch in circulation. Fast-forward to July and the old PLM died (after 3.5 years) so I ordered a new one (overnight). It works so far, V2.2 production date 1617. Two questions / comments: 1. Why do these fail so readily? It seems annoying for such a critical component. And is there anything I can do to mitigate the risk? E.g., normally I'd put something like this on a high-end surge suppressor / noise filter, but those are not recommended for obvious reasons. 2. After restoring the PLM I noticed the LED flashing on my motion detector even though it's disabled. Last time this happened I debugged it to having an incorrect link. This happened this time, too, and so I started doing Diagnostics -> Show Device Links Table -> Compare and discovered just about everything has entries for the old PLM. Is this expected? Is this harmful and I should be doing a "Restore Device"? Thanks!
stusviews Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 1. The PLMs failed due to poor quality components. That's reported to have been corrected starting with V2.+ 2. Restore Modem should replace all instances of the old PLM Insteon ID with the new one. The ISY knows which PLM it's connected to. You may want to perform Restore Modem again.
Brian H Posted July 23, 2016 Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) 2. When you replaced the PLM. The new PLM ID links are written into the Insteon modules in the system. Battery operated Insteon modules have to be woken up before they can be written to. Probably the motion sensor was never updated with the new PLM ID links. As it was in the battery saving state. Disabled in the Administrative Console should not have stopped the Motion Sensor from still sending motion detection signals and it didn't get the reply back from the new PLM. Flashing the LED error indication. Edited July 23, 2016 by Brian H
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