KeypadLinc programming buttons as scene off

[kwindrem]

I'm new to Insteon and ISY but getting the hang of things.

 

I like to program separate on/off buttons especially for lights you can't see from a KeypadLinc. This generally works fine with the following exceptions.

 

1) If I set up the upper left button as ON for the local device and the one to it's right for OFF, pressing the OFF button does turn the light off but the OFF button flashes a few times and remains off. If I trigger the off from the ISY admin console or another KeypadLinc, the OFF button does light. I have double checked the scene programming however there is no entry under the off button (set up as controller) for that button itself. E.g.:

 

Deck On scene:

  Deck.On (local device): 100%

  Deck.Off : 0%

  

Deck Off scene:

  Deck.On: 0%

  Deck.Off: 100%

 

 Deck.Off details (copied from Deck Off scene)

    Deck.On: 0%

    Deck.Off --- not in this section

 

2) If I have a SwitchLinc or a 6-button KeypadLinc in the same scene as two buttons on another KeypadLinc, the OFF buttons on the SwitchLinc or KeypadLinc turn the "on" scene off as expected but since the OFF button lights in other KeypadLincs turn on when the "off" scene is turned on, these buttons don't light. Essentially, I can't find a way for a dedicated off button to turn a scene on.

 

Is there any way to get around these issues?

 

I wouldn't mind having all OFF buttons always off but I've tried to program scenes that way and had problems where the off buttons would light when pressing that button.

 

Is there a better way to deal with on and off than having separate scenes? (I can't find a way to set up a button to turn a scene off.)

[stusviews]

Create a scene with the Off button as a trigger to turn the scene on. One restriction is that the Off button of a 6-button KPL cannot turn on the load of that same KPL.

[oberkc]

pressing the OFF button does turn the light off but the OFF button flashes a few times and remains off.

Sounds as if this button is configured non-toggle OFF.  Do you remember doing this?

 

I have double checked the scene programming however there is no entry under the off button (set up as controller) for that button itself.

Assuming I understand correctly, your scenes look correct.  When the scene name is chosen, this is as if the PLM is controller and the two buttons are responders, with levels for each.  When a controller device from a scene is selected, only the remaining devices would have a responder level.  When you chose the OFF button, only the ON button would have a responder level setting.

 

as for (2), stusviews is, of course, correct.  However, a little creativity may solve your problem.  You could actually convert you 6-button to an 8, but leave the physical buttons in place.  The old OFF button now covers "new" buttons 7 and 8 (or g and h).  Using scenes, where g and h are always included and identicially configured, you could use the lower button to toggle things on and off, just like any other button.

 

I find scenes to be quite powerful and effective.  While I am not confident I understand WHAT you are trying to achieve, it sure sounds like scenes are a good option here.

[kwindrem]

Is there a way to have a KeypadLinc button trigger a scene OFF?

 

For nearly every "on" scene, I also have a corresponding "off" scene. The "off" scene essentially does what an off command to the on scene would do.

 

A 6-button KeypadLinc can obviously do this because the OFF button is linked to the same scene as the ON button. But I can't find a way to do this with other buttons of a KeypadLinc.

 

 

 

 

[LeeG]

A KPL Secondary button can be set to "non-toggle Off" such that when the button is pressed an Off command is always sent to the Scene.

[oberkc]

Is there a way to have a KeypadLinc button trigger a scene OFF?

If a keypad button is controller of a scene, turning on the button will turn on the scene and turning off the button will turn off the scene.  As LeeG suggests, if you set a button to non-toggle mode (off or on) pressing that button will always turn it off (or on).

 

If you are looking to turn one scene on with a button, and a different scene off with the same button, this will require a program.

[stusviews]

If you are looking to turn one scene on with a button, and a different scene off with the same button, this will require a program.

 

That will actually require two programs, one for On and another for Off.

[kwindrem]

A KPL Secondary button can be set to "non-toggle Off" such that when the button is pressed an Off command is always sent to the Scene.

I was pretty sure I'd tried this before without success but after your post, I tried again and it worked great.

 

Doing things this way also eliminated all of my "off" scenes, simplifying programming and debugging.

 

I do wish the toggle, non-toggle on, non-toggle off selection was a bit less clumsy. The dialog should have three buttons not just a toggle/non-toggle button with a pop-up dialog to select on or off for non-toggle.

[LeeG]

kwindrem

 

Good to hear you have it working.  

 

Scene XXX On and Scene XXX Off work the same whether from a SwitchLinc with a single paddle, a single KPL button working in the default Toggle mode, or using multiple buttons as you are.  Once the principle is understood it usually applies to many Insteon devices.

[oberkc]

That will actually require two programs, one for On and another for Off.

Thanks for the clarifiction. While it might be doable with one (control on AND control not off) the point was more to point out that this is beyond the power of scenes.