Icon relay switch 2876SB not working with new PLM?

[walheser]

Upgraded from a 20+ year old X-10 system to a ISY 994i with Insteon and Icon switches and modules three years ago. Running a combination of 12 switches and events.

 

Everything has worked perfectly, until;

 

In Jan of this year, my three year old PLM died. Replaced it with a new PLM 2413S, rev 2.0.

 

At the same time I updated the firmware. Am currently running v4.4.6.

 

Everything works, except for my two 2876SB ICON RELAY Switches.

 

I can manually turn them on & off from the consul. But they will not respond to their programmed events.

 

Have reboot, reloaded all the software and reset everything several times. Even dumped my entire events scheduled and rewrote it from scratch.

 

If I turn on the switch manually at the switch, its status does not show up in the software. If I turn the switch on manually from the software, its status will reflect that.

 

But the actual timed event, on or off will not happen.

 

I've been fighting this as time has allowed, but need to resolve this as I am looking to expand my system with a ELKproducts Security controller and just added a Z-Wave module to the ISY 994i.

 

Any suggesting would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you,

 

Wally Heser

[stusviews]

You mentioned that the firmware is 4.4.6. What about the UI? You may get unanticipated results it the firmware and UI are different.

[walheser]

Both the Fireware and UI are showen as v 4.4.6 2016-03-24 09:24:29 as per Help>About.

[stusviews]

Try a factory reset. Here's how:

 

1. Press and hold the Paddle Top for 10 seconds -- then release.
2. Tap the SET Button all the way in -- then release.
3. Push the SET Button all the way in and hold for 10 seconds -- then release.
4. A few seconds after you release the SET button, Icon On/Off Switch will turn the light it is wired to fully ON, indicating that the factory reset is complete.

[Techman]

you should also take a look at your programs to make sure the device name is correct and hasn't changed.

 

then do a restore device

[walheser]

Thanks for the response.

 

However, resetting the switches did not work.

 

Even took the switches out of the wall and disconnected the wires for at least 10 minutes.

 

Then had the ISY software link them. From which I get a Already added message.

 

The names and addesses are correct. Last month i erased my schedule and rewrote it from scratch.

 

I can turn them on & off from the software, the status of the switches shows the correct current status.

 

If I physically operate the switch, it will turn on or off, but the software will never see it's status. Even if I query them.

 

All my other switches and modules show up and operate perfectly.

 

The only thing that's changed is the new PLM. It work with all my other switches and modules but not these two.

 

I'm no expert, but I've been able to generally follow directions and create a basic lighting scene, starting back in 1983 when I got my first X-10 system.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

wh

[LeeG]

Do a Show Device Links Table followed by a Compare.   Post the images.

 

For the ISY to be aware of a manual paddle press the ICON must have a Controller link pointing to the new PLM

 

E2 01 newplmaddress  ......

 

and the PLM must have Responder link

 

A2 01 ICONaddress ......

 

 

It sounds like one or both links are missing. 

[walheser]

I used compare to see that the two switches were in fact not set the same between the PLM and the ISY.

 

Did a restore, compare now shows that they are in fact the same values.

 

And at sunset today, we will see if they work!

 

Thanks

[Teken]

You could simply advanced the time and see the results. No need to wait for sunset / dusk for the outcome.

[walheser]

 

I thought about that, but I'm won't be home until about that time.

 

And I did the compare on the way out the door this morning!

 

And even if, I probably wouldn't since I don't want to rock the boat, if you know what I mean!

 

If it works for my setup as scheduled and I don't have to touch it again (at least until...), then I'm a Happy Camper!

[Teken]

I thought about that, but I'm won't be home until about that time.

 

And I did the compare on the way out the door this morning!

 

And even if, I probably wouldn't since I don't want to rock the boat, if you know what I mean!

 

If it works for my setup as scheduled and I don't have to touch it again (at least until...), then I'm a Happy Camper!

 

LOL . . . 

 

Please do follow up with the group as everyone loves a happy ending!

[walheser]

Unfortunately, non of the above steps worked?

 

Everything is linked, reset all the switches and PLM after the two switches in question failed to turn on at Sunset.

 

Woke up this morning and they were still on!

 

Since I can turn them off with the software manually, I don't understand why they won't operate per the schedule.

 

All my other switches and modules d0.

 

Any other ideas? Is it time to replace them?

[Techman]

Unfortunately, non of the above steps worked?

 

Everything is linked, reset all the switches and PLM after the two switches in question failed to turn on at Sunset.

 

Woke up this morning and they were still on!

 

Since I can turn them off with the software manually, I don't understand why they won't operate per the schedule.

 

All my other switches and modules d0.

 

Any other ideas? Is it time to replace them?

 

The switches were discontinued, probably for a good reason, it's probably time to replace them.

 

What type of load are they controlling?

[LeeG]

Difficult to suggest  the next steps without the requested information.

[Teken]

Unfortunately, non of the above steps worked?

 

Everything is linked, reset all the switches and PLM after the two switches in question failed to turn on at Sunset.

 

Woke up this morning and they were still on!

 

Since I can turn them off with the software manually, I don't understand why they won't operate per the schedule.

 

All my other switches and modules d0.

 

Any other ideas? Is it time to replace them?

 

I  would provide the level 3 trace logs for LeeG's review which can offer more insight and possible fix's. As Techman inquired what is the load in question and have you ruled out its not from that.

 

Simple test so you don't waste your time hanging around for sunset / dusk.

 

1. Replace load with incandescent light bulb - verify you can turn it on & off locally at the switch - do the very same via the Admin Console. If both tests pass then go forward to step two.

 

2. Change the program time to something current so you can watch and monitor the results. If the program executes correctly than remove the incandescent bulb and replace it with the previous one - rinse and repeat. If you notice the program does not turn the light(s) off as expected its most definitely the lighting load (bulb).

 

3. Keep in mind Icon switches are single band (SB) as others mentioned so having a solid Insteon RF / Powerline coupling / bridging is paramount for reliable and consistent performance. If you have a plugin device you can move around try to move one of them to the problem circuit to see if there is a change in reliability.

 

NOTE: All the coupling / bridging in the world does not supersede the need to isolate, remove, replace a noise maker / signal sucker in the Insteon network. Lastly, a sample of the program would do wonders to ensure there isn't something in conflict here.

[LeeG]

"Everything is linked, reset all the switches and PLM after the two switches in question failed to turn on at Sunset. 

Woke up this morning and they were still on!"

 

I don't understand, they fail to turn on at sunset yet they are on in the morning?

 

 

There are differences between sending Direct commands to the switches using the Admin Console (which do not use link records) versus Scenes (which depend on link records) where the ISY is not aware of a paddle press.  The Show Device Link Table would have shown whether the required link record was in the switch. 

[walheser]

Both of these switches worked perfectly for the past three plus years.

 

Up until the old PLM died and was replaced. All my other switches and modules continue to function.

 

The first wall switch controls the front porch light. It has a 25 watt LED installed. The LED's was the reason I installed these switches in the first place. The old X10's would leak voltage due to the lower resistance between the LED's and incandescent lights

 

The second wall switch controls the lamp on my desk in the den. Have a 3-Way LED installed, keep it set to 50 watts unless I'm actually working at the desk.

 

I have not post copies of the link information, mainly because I haven't been able to do a screen capture of the data.

 

Also the PLM gives you a nice table listing everything. The ISY and Devices, you have to do each switch individually.

 

But when I did do the compare, the PLM and the ISY showed the same values where the Divices did not.

 

So it did a Restore, rechecked and all the values matched.

 

I just tried resetting the times for the lights to turn and off to within 5 to 7 minutes. Erased those switches from my scenes and rewriting them.

 

Again they don't work unless I physically either push the switch or use the keyboard to access them.

 

If I was to replace them, which switch would I need.

 

Thanks

 

wh

[Teken]

Both of these switches worked perfectly for the past three plus years.

 

Up until the old PLM died and was replaced. All my other switches and modules continue to function.

 

The first wall switch controls the front porch light. It has a 25 watt LED installed. The LED's was the reason I installed these switches in the first place. The old X10's would leak voltage due to the lower resistance between the LED's and incandescent lights

 

The second wall switch controls the lamp on my desk in the den. Have a 3-Way LED installed, keep it set to 50 watts unless I'm actually working at the desk.

 

I have not post copies of the link information, mainly because I haven't been able to do a screen capture of the data.

 

Also the PLM gives you a nice table listing everything. The ISY and Devices, you have to do each switch individually.

 

But when I did do the compare, the PLM and the ISY showed the same values where the Divices did not.

 

So it did a Restore, rechecked and all the values matched.

 

I just tried resetting the times for the lights to turn and off to within 5 to 7 minutes. Erased those switches from my scenes and rewriting them.

 

Again they don't work unless I physically either push the switch or use the keyboard to access them.

 

If I was to replace them, which switch would I need.

 

Thanks

 

wh

 

Hello Wally,

 

Before throwing money at the problem I would humbly suggest you complete some of the outstanding tasks asked above. Because if you purchase any new Insteon devices and you do indeed have a noise issue dual band technology won't resolve it.

 

If and only if its determined the Icon switches are bad then of course you can purchase new hardware. But doing the other steps before hand is free and will offer much insight to you and the group.

[Techman]

The load shouldn't be an issue.

 

After you did a restore device did you do another compare link tables (between the device and the ISY)  to see if the tables match?

I've had old devices where the non volatile memory failed which caused the link tables to become corrupt. 

 

If you want to replace the devices and your LEDs support dimming then you could use the 2477D. If the bulbs don't support dimming then use the 2477S. both of these switches are dual band which should help improve the reliability of your Insteon network.