PLCGuy Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Anyone have advice on the best way to extend the ISY Zwave signals? As a bit of background, I started out trying to use Zwave about five years ago (I even took the Leviton Installer training). I gave up on the technology because of the range issues and the lousy controllers available at the time. Instead I switched over to using the ISY/Insteon combination and have been very happy with the ISY and moderately happy with the Insteon products. However it is now clear to me that the lack of new devices for Insteon, particularly locks sets and I/O modules, means that I need to dig out all the Leviton hardware and try Zwave again. Now the sites I work with often have buildings (such garages, workshops and greenhouses) separate from the main residence, so I need to get better range than typically needed in Zwave installations. Anyone have ideas how to do this successfully? Digging through the forum, I see several people suggesting using the Aeotec Z-Wave Gen 5 Siren (ZW080) as repeaters, rather than the actual Aeotec repeaters. Why is this? And are there other repeater solutions or ideas for better range? Also I see the external antenna is discontinued. Since a directional antenna might be nice for connecting two buildings. is there other alternatives. Equipment cost isn't as much of an issue as reliability - I'd happily pay more to get it done right the first time. Finally, any tips for the best way to initially "include" new Zwave devices with the ISY. I was physically removing the lock sets and moving them to be within 2 feet of the mounted ISY, but besides being a massive time sync, I quickly discovered that Zwave expects devices to stay put and not move around. Moving the ISY to be near the door locks has been equally challenging (and requires very long serial and Ethernet cables). I still have the Vizia RF + Installer Tool and it is portable enough, but I'm not sure if it plays well with either the ISY and the new devices on the market. What does everyone else do when trying to include mounted devices with the ISY? Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohai Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Has anyone tried using multiple z-wave controllers on a network where one controller is a slave of the other? Then the signals between controllers could be ethernet (or wifi?) and you could traverse longer distances. The powerline portion of Insteon is a great idea and I'm surprised z-wave hasn't tried to implement that somehow. Or, someone hasn't come up with a z-wave to powerline networking interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 There's no doubt that the Aeon Gen 5 siren is currently the best repeater for Z-wave. Locks usually need to be near the ISY to include them (for security reasons), then they can be moved to their final location--if the signal is strong enough or there's a repeater such as some other Z-Wave devices or the siren. I don't know why, but it's often best to exclude a device once or twice before including it. BTW, there have been many more Insteon devices introduced than there have been new Z-Wave devices. I agree, locks are not a strong point with Insteon, however the I/O Linc is among the most versatile of devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoods329 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I haven't tried using the siren yet (it's on my to do list); but generally I've had better luck by staggering hardwired devices between battery powered devices. Could totally be coincidental though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Most Z-Wave hard wired devices also function as repeaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLCGuy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Most Z-Wave hard wired devices also function as repeaters. Well in theory that is supposed to be the case, but in my admittedly limited testing I am finding that Zwave devices are not all created equal when it comes to repeating the signal. The Leviton Vizia RF+ switches aren't bad, but they don't seem to be able to reliably repeat over 30 metres, which is what I think the spec is. Nor do some of the devices I have handle the secure format that locks require. Since many posts specifically call out the Aeon Gen 5 siren as a great repeater, I am wondering what makes it so good (and if it is worth buying a few). Of course all of this is a bit of a problem when I am trying to reach a lockset in a remote building, as there are no hardwired devices that are outdoor rated. But if the Aeon Gen 5 sirens really do rock as repeaters, I will buy some, enclose them in a waterproof case and see if I can make Zwave work "outdoors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 When I installed our first Z-Wave lock, results were intermittent, so I tried an AEOTECH DSD37 Range Extender about 8' from the lock and between the lock and the ISY. Not much help. The siren (same company) gave flawless results even located further away from both the ISY and the lock. I was so pleased that I bought a second siren before installing locks at the other end of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 When I installed our first Z-Wave lock, results were intermittent, so I tried an AEOTECH DSD37 Range Extender about 8' from the lock and between the lock and the ISY. Not much help. The siren (same company) gave flawless results even located further away from both the ISY and the lock. I was so pleased that I bought a second siren before installing locks at the other end of the house. This sounds like they have RF tuning problems between devices/brands. Repeat the signal and you get a new tuning from another transmitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLCGuy Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Doing a bit more digging, I think I see why the Aeotec Siren is a better repeater than the actual Aeotec repeaters. The siren is Gen5 (aka Zwave Plus) running the 500 series chipset, while the repeater still uses the 300 series chipset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeviNH Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Z-wave has a hard limit of 4 hops, which in theory should be enough for anybody. In theory. This sounds like they have RF tuning problems between devices/brands. Repeat the signal and you get a new tuning from another transmitter. That is an interesting possibility, would be easy enough to validate with the right test gear. Another possible factor is antenna orientation. Aside from hubs, the only Z-wave devices I've seen with external antennae are in-wall modules. Doing a bit more digging, I think I see why the Aeotec Siren is a better repeater than the actual Aeotec repeaters. The siren is Gen5 (aka Zwave Plus) running the 500 series chipset, while the repeater still uses the 300 series chipset. Sometime after August 2016, Aeotec released the "Range Extender 6", (XBAFT118) which lists in the features higher transmit power, more range, and compatibility with 500 series chipset devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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