NEW Installation - Insteon or Z-Wave?

[ferdies]

Hi,

 

I have to start a new installation and planning to build a house (since I have sold my house wherein I had a bit of a huge installation with over hundred of insteon devices: switches, outlets, sprinklers, leak and motion sensors, etc). I did not fully integrate Z-wave in this installation since I have only Z-wave motion sensor and of course, my range was limited since not a lot of Z-wave devices were available at home.

 

 

Since I am planning of a new installation, I would like to gather some feedback on the pros and cons of switching to Z-Wave instead of just insteon devices. 

 

I still have my ISY994i with Z-module, hence I am thinking the I can go full Z-wave, correct?

 

Moreover, Alexa Echo and Dot will play a bigger role in this new project of mine!

 

I may go all out and install ELK security system and have motions sensors strategically setup in different parts of the house and program to control any Z-wave devices. (previous installation, I used DSC1616 and used DSCLink -http://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/40-dsc/).

 

Is my ISY994i with Z-wave module sufficient enough as a starting point?

 

One advantage I could think of is the cost saving - Z-wave switches are less expensive compared to insteon.

 

Other than that, what will be the advantages of having Z-wave installation? Will there will some disadvantages? 

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/19160-extending-the-range-of-zwave/ -  - is this still a huge issue if it is a full Z-wave installation?

 

 

Appreciate any feedback.

 

Thanks. 

 

 

[oberkc]

Some have said they use zwave exclusively with the ISY controller. I do not. My perceptions are that it could work well but youwould be near fully dependent on programs. I do not believe the ISY has the ability to create direct scene relationships between zwave devices.

 

While i still use more insteon than zwave, I have liked both. Until the point the ISY supports zwave scenes, though, I would probably continue to favor insteon and use zwave selectively.

[Guitartexan01]

If I were you, I wouldn't think in that box. Be prepared to use anything that works.

Having said that, I use around 80% zwave and the rest insteon and other. I had an issue a while back with noise interfering with an insteon device and just used a zwave device instead. There can be so much headache with insteon and filters and interference that rather than try to diagnose that one, I just went zwave. If you run into a zwave issue or zwave doesn't work in a particular situation, use insteon. As far as reliability and satisfaction, I have nothing but good to say about zwave. I don't have much bad to say about insteon either. They are both quite usable under the same roof in my experience.

I have not had any connection problems either and I have zwave from top to bottom and front to back in my house.

 

 

GT

[mwester]

Use both.  Just remember that crossing between the two (z-wave and Insteon) requires the ISY to do the work to bridge the two, so there will always be a delay of some sort.  Right now that delay is just too long for lighting (guests will actually start flipping the switch back and forth a few times before the ISY finally schedules the program and executes the command to turn on the light - not acceptable).

 

I use z-wave for all sensors and the main garage door, and for second floor lighting.  Insteon is used for first-floor lighting where the Keypadlincs play a huge part in the spousal-acceptance-factor.  I also use Insteon in the out-buildings (shop and shed) because it's a tad too far for z-wave and I don't feel like putting a z-wave repeater on my yard light pole.

 

Both have their place - and both have their frustrations.  But to be honest about it, I've had ten times more trouble with signal issues on my Insteon stuff than I've had with the z-wave.  Once someone comes up with a proper z-wave replacement for the keypadlinc, I'll be looking at re-doing my first floor with z-wave as well -- and getting rid of numerous filterlincs clogging up outlets all over the place!

[Guitartexan01]

I agree about the lighting. Just use zwave for lighting. Near instantaneous.

 

 

GT

[larryllix]

Doesn't Zwave "being instantaneous" only mean certain brands, that report updates, and then the cost of Zwave switches is  higher than Insteon switches?

[mwester]

Doesn't Zwave "being instantaneous" only mean certain brands, that report updates, and then the cost of Zwave switches is  higher than Insteon switches?

 

Yes, one has to be selective to ensure one gets the feature -- but the cost isn't necessarily higher than Insteon.  And when faced with a 3-way switch setup, the z-wave solution for that is far cheaper (although it must be noted that z-wave doesn't have such a solution for 4-way switches!).

[stusviews]

That's only advantageous in situations where there already is a multi-way configuration. In the case of a virtual 3-way configuration, only the more costly Z-Wave devices will suffice.

 

BTW, Z-Wave does have 4-way ability using multiple slave switches.

[ferdies]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Just to digress a bit from Z-Wave...

 

Would it be possible to install Lutron (http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeHomeSystems/Homeworksqs/Overview.aspx) and will ISY be able to control Homeworks?

 

The reason I am asking is that I like the programming flexibility of ISY - NetWork Module. 

 

Or this will be an overkill?

 

Appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Just to digress a bit from Z-Wave...

 

Would it be possible to install Lutron (http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeHomeSystems/Homeworksqs/Overview.aspx) and will ISY be able to control Homeworks?

 

The reason I am asking is that I like the programming flexibility of ISY - NetWork Module.

 

Or this will be an overkill?

 

Appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

This a professional product that sold and installed by AV Integration company normally unless you get it from elsewhere however Lutron will not warranty it. That being said its a great product and is 100% reliable.

[ferdies]

This a professional product that sold and installed by AV Integration company normally unless you get it from elsewhere however Lutron will not warranty it. That being said its a great product and is 100% reliable.

Thanks. What about Lutron Caseta? This is a DIY. Any chance for it to be compatible with ISY?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks. What about Lutron Caseta? This is a DIY. Any chance for it to be compatible with ISY?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

So far there is no way to connect Caseta to ISY directly. As an professional AV installer myself I use the rticorp.com XP3 or XP6 processor in lieu of the ISY for situations like this. Theres nothing the the XP processor cant do that the ISY does outside Insteon. That being said the RTI is a professional installer product too.

 

Sounds like you really are looking for a all in one hub to connect all your devices together nicely. I personally find the ISY cant be complete home hub for all products so you have to treat it like its own hardware then use something like openHAB to bring everything together in a nice UI.

[ferdies]

So far there is no way to connect Caseta to ISY directly. As an professional AV installer myself I use the rticorp.com XP3 or XP6 processor in lieu of the ISY for situations like this. Theres nothing the the XP processor cant do that the ISY does outside Insteon. That being said the RTI is a professional installer product too.

 

Sounds like you really are looking for a all in one hub to connect all your devices together nicely. I personally find the ISY cant be complete home hub for all products so you have to treat it like its own hardware then use something like openHAB to bring everything together in a nice UI.

 

Thanks Scottmichaelj!

 

Yes, really the objective is to make sure that I can integrate most of these things together. In my previous installation, it was basically all workarounds and a bit messy.

 

I am not familiar with openHAB but I will further explore. I did an initial research since I would also like to integrate Asterisk with openHAB binding (yes - I am still using Asterisk for my VoiP PBX. It worked and get phones calls if there's a trigger at home and other functions - https://github.com/openhab/openhab/wiki/Asterisk-Binding. But this is not the primary objective.

 

Simplicity for a user's perspective (my kids and wife) as well as easy maintenance from my end is the key objective! Of course, aesthetics is important, hence I like the look and feel of Lutron devices.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks Scottmichaelj!

 

Yes, really the objective is to make sure that I can integrate most of these things together. In my previous installation, it was basically all workarounds and a bit messy.

 

I am not familiar with openHAB but I will further explore. I did an initial research since I would also like to integrate Asterisk with openHAB binding (yes - I am still using Asterisk for my VoiP PBX. It worked and get phones calls if there's a trigger at home and other functions - https://github.com/openhab/openhab/wiki/Asterisk-Binding. But this is not the primary objective.

 

Simplicity for a user's perspective (my kids and wife) as well as easy maintenance from my end is the key objective! Of course, aesthetics is important, hence I like the look and feel of Lutron devices.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

I was in the same spot your in back in 2013 when I was building my home. Having access to a wide range of products I stayed with Insteon due to the fact they have a ton of devices for all kinds of things. Water leak detectors, hidden door sensors, keypads with multiple buttons, etc. I have been an ISY user since 2007 and for Insteon there is nothing better IMO. So I went that route and made sure to install a Leviton whole home surge on my electrical panel along with a phase coupler. Then all Insteons devices installed were dual band. For noisy appliances like washer, fridge etc I put a filterlinc on them and my system is solid for communications. As time goes on I ended up adding more devices like Elk Alarm, MyQ module, Honeywell RedLink Gateway for access, RTI remotes, Wireless Tags, etc so I quickly learned the ISY and the Mobilinc interface wasnt going to work for me. I then moved to RTI remote controls since it allows me to have total flexibility and control to design the GUI as I wanted for myself. With their app and hardware I can access, control and get status on all my devices in my home. The closest thing outside RTI I found was openHAB, which can be run on a cheap PC stick like the Azulle Access PC That I did a review on in the Coffee Shop section if you dont have a PC on 24/7.

 

Azulle Quantum Access Mini PC Stick

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Euniversal-devices%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F19200-Azulle-Quantum-Access-Mini-PC-Stick&share_tid=19200&share_fid=23986&share_type=t

[ferdies]

I was in the same spot your in back in 2013 when I was building my home. Having access to a wide range of products I stayed with Insteon due to the fact they have a ton of devices for all kinds of things. Water leak detectors, hidden door sensors, keypads with multiple buttons, etc. I have been an ISY user since 2007 and for Insteon there is nothing better IMO. So I went that route and made sure to install a Leviton whole home surge on my electrical panel along with a phase coupler. Then all Insteons devices installed were dual band. For noisy appliances like washer, fridge etc I put a filterlinc on them and my system is solid for communications. As time goes on I ended up adding more devices like Elk Alarm, MyQ module, Honeywell RedLink Gateway for access, RTI remotes, Wireless Tags, etc so I quickly learned the ISY and the Mobilinc interface wasnt going to work for me. I then moved to RTI remote controls since it allows me to have total flexibility and control to design the GUI as I wanted for myself. With their app and hardware I can access, control and get status on all my devices in my home. The closest thing outside RTI I found was openHAB, which can be run on a cheap PC stick like the Azulle Access PC That I did a review on in the Coffee Shop section if you dont have a PC on 24/7.

 

Azulle Quantum Access Mini PC Stick

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Euniversal-devices%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F19200-Azulle-Quantum-Access-Mini-PC-Stick&share_tid=19200&share_fid=23986&share_type=t

 

Thank you! 

 

Do you mind further elaborating on RTI. I have checked this website for an introduction. http://www.rticorp.com/. I am assuming that RTI would be responsible for integrating all these disparate systems, correct?

 

Is it designed for a DYIer? Or professional installer is required? Based on prelim research -  it has to be installed by custom electronics professionals.

[Scottmichaelj]

Thank you!

 

Do you mind further elaborating on RTI. I have checked this website for an introduction. http://www.rticorp.com/. I am assuming that RTI would be responsible for integrating all these disparate systems, correct?

 

Is it designed for a DYIer? Or professional installer is required? Based on prelim research - it has to be installed by custom electronics professionals.

Its only available to professional AV installers. I thought in my previous post I mentioned that, sorry. I own a AV integration company so I have access to RTI along with Control4, Savant and the rest. My preferred choice is RTI and I have developed a few addons to work with it.