Query <--> Status Reporting

[asbril]

I have a few programs that set specific switches to induce other switches. As an example in my living room I have 8 Zwave light switches and devices.  The program runs that when switch  " 1 " is activated, the other 7 lights go  ON or OFF as per switch " 1 ".

 

Because these are  non status-reporting switches, the program does only run if it receives the status of switch " 1 ".

 

Therefore I added another  program that  queries switch " 1 "  every minute. I think that this resolves the status reporting issue but I  need more time to confirm. 

 

Is there a better way to get this result ? Would there be an issue if that 'query' program runs every, for example.  10 seconds ?

 

Btw I have a Cooper switch in one of the bathrooms and supposedly it has status reporting, but often it does not, and therefore I run the same  'query' program for that bathroom.

 

Any comments / suggestions ?

[stusviews]

You could even query every second to ensure that you don't miss the status change. But wait, a change can take less that a second, so you can still miss it. Each time you query a device, you are placing traffic on the power line which can interrupt other transmissions. The best solution is to replace the device with one that does report status.

[asbril]

Thanks for your input.  I have more than 30 Zwave devices, mostly switches. As I mentioned one of the switches is a Cooper switch that supposedly has status reporting but often does not. [  As a matter of fact the Cooper switch'  blue indicator goes on when the light goes ON, contrary to my GE switches  which are visible in the dark and this is far more practical.   ].

 

I do indeed intend to gradually replace my switches with status reporting, but if my query program works, I can save some money for the time being.

 

Do you think that frequent querying may interfere with other operations of my ISY controller ?

[stusviews]

Insteon is nearly instantaneous. so any collisions would need to occur at the same instant. More traffic on the power line increases the risk, however small. Start by replacing the most frequently used switch.

[asbril]

You refer to Insteon and powerline, but I stopped using Insteon (PLMs blowing uo...), so I only have Zwave.

[stusviews]

Z-Wave is RF only. RF signals are not nearly as robust as are power line signals.

 

You actually had one or more PLMs blow up?

[asbril]

Stu,  the PLM did not literally 'blow up', but when I had a power outage, it stopped working and stubbornly refused to resurface among the living. I then read that many people experience PLM problems.

I understand that the dual communication protocol of Insteon is better, but I don't like the mono-supplier orbit of Insteon and believe more in the future of Zwave.  The good thing of ISY is that one is not obliged to make a choice, but I decided to go Zwave all the way anyway.  I am more interested ( concerned ?) about the possible impact of Apple's Home Kit and Google Home. 

Anyway, I now have the query program running for a day and so far so good. 

Thanks for your interesting feedback and perspective.

[mwester]

I wonder about the misinformation being spread about sometimes.  There's no validity to a general statement that Insteon's protocol is "better" than anything else -- it all depends.  Same for any statement that powerline signals are somehow more "robust" than RF (what, do powerline signals eat their Wheaties and work out at the gym? ).  And regarding collisions, again there's no validity to any implication that Insteon somehow deals with that better than other protocols.

 

In fact, due to the very low signal rate used on the power lines by the Insteon devices, it's far more likely that a busy Insteon network will experience collisions than the typical radio network, and in terms of Insteon's RF protocol, the fact that insteon's RF is somehow interconnected to the powerline signal and thus is rendered effectively "deaf" by power-line noise makes any comparison of the Insteon RF in isolation merely a theoretical exercise.

 

Now let me digress back to the original post - I would never poll an Insteon network on anything less than about 10 minutes; it would result in all the problems mentioned earlier.  Insteon, regardless of theory, just doesn't handle that sort of traffic well in the real world, particularly if you have "hidden" devices that rely on multiple hops.  ZWave, however, is not dependent upon synchronization with the very slow power-line signal, is much, much faster in terms of bit rate, and in my case, I have no hidden devices.  So I happily poll my office ZWave switch (which doesn't do status) every 5 seconds.  Never had a problem... works great.

[stusviews]

Signals traveling through copper are, in most cases, more dependable than those traveling through air. I don't doubt that wireless is more convenient. But, compare for example the reliability of Ethernet vs. WiFi. Or even more to the point, a wired vs. a wireless security system. Wired is always preferred when it can be implemented.

 

It may not be possible to filter extraneous RF, but power line interference can nearly always be controlled. It's too bad the you have a need to poll devices. Doesn't that limit their ability to trigger a program? I don't expect to have to wait as long as 4-5 seconds when I tap a button to observe an effect.

 

Now that Lutron's patent has expired, I'd expect that the feature will be available in more products.

[mwester]

Theory is a wonderful thing, and back when Insteon was new I'm certain the powerline thing worked out very nicely.  But it's now fairly well established that getting reliable Insteon comms is a very, very difficult task for many users.  If your experience is different, then be happy. And don't change a THING, not a single thing you've got plugged in or wired in ANYWHERE, lest you join the rest of us living in FilterLinc hell!

 

Indeed, the next switches I acquire will do instant status.  But since $50 is a significant amount of money for me, I'm very happy that I can make my existing devices work adequately (although not ideally) for no additional cost.  And less you pop in with some comment about an Insteon switch could be had for $45 instead, and I should have used that, let me point out that an Insteon switch MAY have worked, but very likely would have required another 1 to 6 FilterLincs all over the second floor, significantly increasing cost for no or very little additional value.

 

I threw in with Insteon originally, and tried my best to make it work.  Now that I've expanded my horizons a bit, and included z-wave in my world, I'm no longer quite so blind to the weaknesses of Insteon's protocol and SmartHome's implementation.

[larryllix]

Geeezzzz. I was thinking all I hear is Z-Wave user complaints about signal not be reliable, needing repeaters without saying, and constant problems with comms until they get it worked out to a reliable state in their HA.

 

I do hear some complaints about Inseton but once people get a few more devices and solve some noise problems it disappears. Maybe thos epeople just go away mad?

 

I have about 50 Insteon devices and have not really had any significant problems. I have two outback inveters going away 24 x 7 and I do have some occasional problems at that end of the house, with rapid fire Insteon signals getting through reliably, I believe when the sun is low and the inverters are operating at their highest distortion levels. This happens when the KPL is used for a combination lock, while an MS is seeing movement, a buzzlink is being activated, and the garage door is operating at the same time.

 

99.9% of the time the Insteon signal gets through reliably, with it's powerline signals or it's RF signals to the four different phases in my house. I don't have any repeaters, extenders, signal boosters, phase couplers, filters or anything that isn't a plug-in module, wall switch, or IO/Linc that is in use with a load device.

 

If I had to use filterlinc all over the place I would be miffed and look for alternatives also.

[asbril]

Seems everybody is happy.... Insteon users happy and Zwave users happy.  As Louis Armstrong sang...What a wonderful world.

[asbril]

I have recently added Homeseer switches to my ISY network. These are more expensive but the Status reporting works well and the dimmer switches have nice sentinel lights to show % of dimming.

The Homeseer  switches are also Zwave Plus for future purposes.  

I now plan to slowly replace those of my  GE/Jasco switches that currently require frequent Query (as part of a program).