Best AV control (IR and network) with Amazon Echo?

[kgividen]

I'm ready to control my AV setup with my Amazon Echo and I'm curious to know what is the best setup people have used.  I know Barry Gordon has some sort of custom code on a raspberry pi and global caches but is that the best way or way others are doing it?

 

I have 3 Echos (soon I'll have 6 more dots)

2 Vizio Smart Tvs in different locations (Both have Netflix, amazon tv, vudu, plex)

Roku 3,

Apple TV

2 Amazon Fire Sticks

Rasberry Pi,

Insteon

Multiple Global Caches (although they aren't hooked up)

Plex Server (currently on a windows server)

 

I figure there are a few options here including:

 

1) Control IR through Insteon IR control and have ISY trigger it through Alexa and the portal

 

2) Control IR through Global Caches and use the network module with ISY (and possibly use something like Gordon uses to stack and or verify the GC commands?)

 

3) Control IR through Global Cache and have Echo talk to some sort of service on a PC/Raspberry Pi

 

Are there other good options?

 

Ideally, I'd like to say:

 

"Alexa, turn on a movie" and it would dim my lights, turn on the tv, turn on some movie device (roku, appleTV, fireTV, netflix, amazon any of them would be nice...)

 

"Alexa, turn on netflix" and it would dim my lights, turn on the tv and switch to netflix.

 

Then unfortunately I might have to say

"Alex, turn netflix up/down/left/right/enter/etc..."

 

Or maybe Alexa can talk to my fire tvs and just say "Alexa, play tv show Gotham, or whatever?"  I haven't tried this yet...

 

Stuff like that...thoughts?

 

Thanks!

 

Kent

 

 

 

 

[kgividen]

Oh. And of course I have a TiVo too.

 

 

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[Jimbo.Automates]

Harmony Elite. Can be integrated with Alexa with RPi and ISYHelper, or IFTTT. I heard harmony is working to get better integration with Alexa, but don't know the latest status.

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[BamBamF16]

Simple controls integration is pretty good. Excellent with global cache devices and getting better with alexa.

[TheFallenAngel]

Simple controls integration is pretty good. Excellent with global cache devices and getting better with alexa.

What are you referring to?

 

Cheers,

Alex

[BamBamF16]

Simple control is an IOS app that interfaces with GC devices and acts as remote. Has an alexa skill to integrate with that. Integrates pretty well with ISY. Can also view cameras in it. Not perfect but pretty good be getting better.

[barrygordon]

I use an RPi as the central controller in my home.  It has multiple modules all coded in NodeJS. There are modules for:

1. Making announcements in any room in the house
2. Handling caller ID and announcing calls to the iPads or the hoiuse audio announcement system
3. Interfacing bi-directionally with subscriptions to the ISY to know what is going on and issuing REST commands as needed
4. Handling all IR to any device needing IR
5. Hosting my personal Amazon Skill, which is deprecated
6. A lot of other stuff

For IR;  the RPi maintains a library of IR commands formatted for the Global Cache family (I use a GC 100 with 6 IR ports) .  I build the library elements, including IR macro capability, using IR data files an a format developed by John Fine and myself we called .irp, or from Pronto HEX formatted IR files. Dot irp files are in english and define the IR protocol and the commands for a given IR remote. The library build process runs on a Windows machine.

 

The Amazon echo will accept a command such as "Alexa, turn on the kitchen TV" This is a command for the ISY to issue a network resource command to the RPI IR module. This command is a JSON formatted command indicating which end device is to be sent which command (e.g. "KTV select" where KTV is the kitchen TV). The RPi has configuration information relating an end devices to a a specific IR file, a specific GC IR device and which port on that GC device is to be used.

 

Response is very fast with no issues with stacked IR commands (macros)

 

I have standardized in my home with JSON being the protocol on the LAN for home automation. I do all of the RPi and iPad programming in javascript (node JS on the RPi, CommandFusion on the iPads/iPhone). This gives me a large set of common functions.  For the RPi I develop all the code using Windows 10 Visual Studio 2015. And just move the working and tested modules to the RPi. 

 

the RPi keeps an extensive log file as operations proceed which can be accessed via a Console module written in VB.net on my windows development system.  The RPi runs totally headless. I use puty and WINSCP to support the RPi from my development system.

[stusviews]

Harmony Ultimate One or Harmony Ultimate Home or Harmony Companion/Home Control

[BamBamF16]

I second simple control. Although currently I am having issues with alexa.

[stusviews]

I simple control. Although currently I am having issues with alexa.

 

I don't see an iSimple skill for Alexa.

[BamBamF16]

The skill is just listed as Simple Control in my Alexa app.

[elvisimprsntr]

Harmony hub. Benefits of Harmony IR database, ease of setup, Echo and IFTTT.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Yes, and Harmony Elite with home control buttons to control ISY devices via hue emulator.

 

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[jwagner010]

Works perfectly for me. http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/18951-ir-companion-for-amazon-echo/?hl=%2Bglobal+%2Bcache+%2Beddy&do=findComment&comment=176935

[oberkc]

I tried simple control (just renamed from roomie) a couple of years ago.  I really liked it.  It found my connected TVs and I could use it with my global cache devices.  I find myself much opposed to monthly fees, however, and having devices that operate only with the support and permission of the company.  The echo support makes me want to re-consider simple control, but I am not sure that I want to have to remember and speak such long phrases as "alexa, tell simple control to do something..."  Lack of android support is also near-disqualifying for me.

 

I have several harmony remotes, including the elite.  I have played around with the echo integration. While turning on/off activities works well (alexa, turn on TV), the skill for some of the of the other functions require the longer phrase "alexa, tell harmony to turn up the volume".  I find it just as easy and, perhaps easier, to simply pick up the remote or tablet.  Another major shortcoming for me is that I use roku devices on a majority of my TVs, and have yet to find alexa skills that allow me to navigate through the roku menus and channels, and doubt that such skills, were they to exist (alexa, tell harmony to press the left button) would be an improvement over the physical remote.  In my mind, the echo will be of little use to me until there are context-senstive commands (such as, simply, "left" or "louder")

 

Given my aversion to monthly fees, I don't have the ISY portal.  Out of curiosity, mostly, I have played around with using the harmony as the glue between my alexa and ISY.  I have the IRLinc reciever, and found that device in the logitech database.  I found it relatively straight-forward to control some lighting scenes (four, at least) with the harmony remote.  The next step was to see whether alexa could do the same through the  echo.  The short answer is, unfortunately, no.  While I could set a lighting activity and the echo could easily turn on and off, the result was an equivalent of an ALLON or ALLOFF command...not what I wanted.  Activities are also not independent.  Turning on one activity turns off devices in the other activities.  Thus turning on the light activity would turn off the TV activity.   Yes, there are power settings in the harmony, and I started playing around with those, but decided that this was becoming more work than it is worth, given that I was not convinced that any of this was an improvement over a simple button press on a keypad or remote.

 

Still trying to figure out if I have an interest in voice control or a use case for the echo.    Maybe I will try it as a morning alarm.  Maybe it is good for morning weather reports?  I am having trouble seeing a compelling use for this echo thing, more than just a technology curioisity,  justifying the work and expense.  We will see how I feel when sonos skills come.   

[gilkman]

+1 Harmony hub.  Here is my Youtube demo:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BTrRUm_cA

[smithlevenson]

This might be a little off topic but I wasn't able to get a straight answer before and had seen it asked a few times.

 

I was able to run a straight stereo cable from the output of the Global Cache IP2IR and straight into the receiver port of my BAFX IR repeater. This avoided the awkward, unreliable, transmit to IR emitter and capture from the IR receiver that I was forced to deal with on the Insteon 2411T debacle. I am planning on using Alexa to send the IR commands, but haven't fully tested the set-up.

[barrygordon]

smithlevenson,

 

What is the question you want a straight answer to?

 

Skipping any issues on the voice recognition aspects of the Echo's (very dependent on placement, room acoustics and Amazon server load) I am getting very good results with the following paradigm.

 

I use no skills, just what UDI supplied as the Echo Portal. I have a finished skill but have not found it necessary to meet my needs and I don't like the required extra phraseology needed (Alexa, Tell <skill> . . . )  I am using a single account but will probably change that this weekend. It would be very helpful if the UDI skill had an import function (it has an export function, so why not an import as export seems useless without import). with an export/import setting up additional Echo systems with a common set of spoken words would be much simpler and less time consuming. Specific accounts could then be tailored with additional spokens germane to the devices location.

 

All of my spoken phrases cause a scene or program to be executed. Many of my programs just reference a network resource. The network resources all reference a TCP server (not http) running on a single Raspberry Pi. The Pi has several modules each of which listens at a different TCP port. The ports represent the functions that perform:

 

IR transmission using a global cache. Input is which GC unit, which IR command file, which specific command and which GC port to send it out on.

 

Audio (voice) announcements. Input is which rooms to send the announcement to, an optional sound to precede the announcement text and a text string to be spoken. That is how I handle Caller ID and the house doorbell.

 

Close/Open any one of 16 relays that control things like garage doors.

 

External systems, to do an On/Off. Currently under control are my Home Theater, my Pool Lights, the Pool waterfall, and the SPA. This action is handled by a small configuration file that instructs the Pi what to send and where.  It is somewhat tailored to each "External" device/system I own.

 

The PI does other things in conjunction with my Home, since it acts as the overall home controller. 

 

Voice initiated operations are extremely fast dependent only on the current amazon load on it servers

 

The code for the Pi (model 3) sits on a 16Gig microSD card and is written in NodeJS. I am planning on releasing the code to this community, but only to those capable of dealing with nodeJS on a DIY basis. It is tailored to certain external devices (IP based relays, IP based input sensors, Global Cache IP2IR devices), but the modules could be changed to use any similar component. I am just starting to write the documentation for the system but will need to take a break for visiting family.  The Pi will work with any device/system that can send it TCP commands. and can control any device that operates via TCP or UDP commands by the addition of new modules or tailoring of  existing modules.  Text to Speech (TTS) is done in the Google cloud (free service) using the "Ivona" voices.

[jtara92101]

Since I acquired a Google Home Assistant (second banana to Alexa, but it was free...) I'm thinking of adding SimpleControl Simple Hub. In the past, I didn't see any compelling need for this. IFTTT can talk to SimpleHub, and Google Home Assistant can talk to IFTTT... Of course, then, ISY can also talk to SimpleHub using rEST, and it would be more convenient than dealing more directly with IR hardware or IP-controlled AV products.

 

It's similar in concept to Harmony Hub. That is, it's an always-on hub on your local network that works in concert with SimpleControl remotes running on your iOS devices. I like that it is NOT a cloud service.

 

It comes in multiple forms: they offer a (overpriced, IMO, $199) hardware device. Or you can run it on an always-on Mac. Or an Apple TV.  (But, unfortunately, the Apple TV has to keep the app open, so only viable, say, to repurpose an older-generation Apple TV...) The Mac option appeals to me, as I have an always-on Mac Mini. It's $49.

 

So, why use SimpleHub, rather than just using rEST network requests directly from ISY? Because controlling AV equipment directly from ISY is painful at best, and impossible at worst. Sure, you can send IR control strings to a Global Cache' or other networked IR transmitter. And you can control SOME IP-connected AV equipment with simple rEST requests. But others, not so much, as they have bi-directional protocols and might involve authentication means that aren't supported by ISY. (Apple TV is a good example.) I've done some SIMPLE things with rEST from ISY, such as A/B speaker switching.

 

With Simple Hub, you send "higher level" rEST requests, that deal with the activities (e.g. "cable", "apple TV", "bluray") you have defined, and mnemonic commands (rather than IR strings) to devices. That is e.g. "volume up" rather than some hex IR string. (OK, looks like not QUITE so simple, as you might need to first look-up a UUID associated with e.g. an activity.)

 

If you use SimpleControl, you've already defined your activities, and are probably somewhat familiar with the device commands. (Assuming you've done some fiddling with custom buttons.) So, using Simple Hub then I think is a no-brainer, as it lets you leverage the setup you've already done, instead of having to go knee-deep in IR commands, and adding IR emitters to equipment that doesn't otherwise need it. (Since SimpleControl can control almost all popular AV equipment that is controlled by IP or serial.)

Edited February 11, 2017 by jtara92101

[barrygordon]

I had not known about simple control when I built my RPi control system.  It's "External" module is very much like what you have described as SimpleControl's basic operation. The IR module allows for high level IR control via a GC IP2IR itach. 

 

The external module currently handles my SPA system which requires multiple IP commands and my theater which requires a WOL first and then simple commands over IP. The part I like the best is that an RPi costs about $35. 

 

I am going to look at Simple control however.

 

The difference between Men and Boys is merely the price of their Toys.

[jtara92101]

An update on SimpleHub...

 

I finally got around to purchasing a SimpleHub license and installing SimpleHub. It is viable, but a bit disappointing. A few hints for anyone wanting to go this route to control AV equipment from ISY, IFTTT Maker Channel, etc.

 

- Documentation for the REST API is hard to find. It's at:

 

    https://www.simplecontrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/HTTPCommandInterface.pdf

 

- It starts an HTTP server on port 47147, and HTTPS on port 47148. However, the HTTPS either uses a self-signed certificate or one signed by a CA not found in common bundles. I had to use curl --insecure option to connect to the HTTPS.

 

- documentation implies some sort of reverse-proxy similar to ISY hub. It has no such thing. SimpleHub just attempts to open a port on your router using UPNP. Two problems with that: the IP address will change over time with most home Internet connections. And I don't consider it safe to enable UPNP.

 

    https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/118918/is-upnp-still-insecure

 

- documentation doesn't bother to go into the practical necessity of using a dynamic DNS service. I have one and know how to use it. But the average user would not have a clue.

 

Given the above, I think the best way to use SimpleHub if you need to command it from the outside world is through ISY Portal. So, for example to run, say, a Cable activity from IFTTT, you would use Maker Channel to run an ISY program. The ISY program would send the REST command using HTTP (not sure if ISY can connect to HTTPS in insecure mode?) then over the local network. 

 

An added advantage is that then you have a program you can use with ISY/Insteon/Zwave as well, which may or may not be useful. (Useful if you actually WANT a KPL button for watching cable, or watching Apple TV, etc. - I don't).

 

Edit: I tested, it does work. If a bit painful to set-up. But not as painful as using IR commands!  I've only set-up "watch cable tv", "watch apple tv", and "tv off". At least now I can use the TV Off program to shut off the TV when I fall asleep with it on!

 

SimpleHub does have an Alexa service. So, if you are willing to go through the rigamarole of exposing the port, you can control directly from Alexa without going through Maker Channel -> ISY.

 

To clarify, I have Google Home Assistant, not Alexa.

Edited March 22, 2017 by jtara92101

[pinuz]

+1 Harmony hub. Here is my Youtube demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BTrRUm_cA

I don't have a demo video to show but with Simple Control and ISY I believe the level of customization you can reach is superior.

Like changing channels vol up down.

We aren't using any remote anymore to open TV's in the house after we integrated alexa.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[barrygordon]

The issue with my theater are as follows and I am interested how others are overcoming them.

 

The theater is a large space and I play it quite loud being a widower with no one in the house to complain.

 

If I try and implement commands other than turning on the theater Alexa has difficulty in understanding the command with the intensity of the background noise.

 

Any advice? 

[larryllix]

The issue with my theater are as follows and I am interested how others are overcoming them.

 

The theater is a large space and I play it quite loud being a widower with no one in the house to complain.

 

If I try and implement commands other than turning on the theater Alexa has difficulty in understanding the command with the intensity of the background noise.

 

Any advice?

 

My wife usually pauses the TV when we try to talk to Alexa.

I find the large speakers make Alexa almost completely deaf, no matter how low the sound is or where she is in the room.

I have given up attempting to have Alexa control my AV system. She can turn it on OK but then becomes deaf. Sometime my Dot in another room will answer with two in the room I am standing in.

 

Watch the dark blue LED pointing where she thinks the source of the sound is. When you see it spinning in every direction while you talk, it's almost useless. Other times she just "disconnects" so I am not the only one that has given up.

 

I don't try to demostrate Alexa to guests anymore. She just embarrasses me, almost every time. If somebody else talks during the demo...she just gets confused.

[jtara92101]

I find the large speakers make Alexa almost completely deaf, no matter how low the sound is or where she is in the room.

 

 

Ditto for Google Home, even though Google Home is generally reported to "hear" better than Alexa. 

 

It is a tough problem. Both need to get better at identifying and masking background sounds. It would be great to have some setup where you turn on other sound sources so that Alexa/Home can identify them.

 

Ideally, Alexa or Google Assistant would be built-in to your receiver, with the sound output to the speakers also routed to Alexa/Assistant. Given the raw source material, it could be subtracted from the mic signal, after adjusting for delay, room response, etc. etc.

 

It should at least then be able to recognize that it's Jeanne Moos talking, and not you.

Edited April 9, 2017 by jtara92101